From Life-Threatening Accident To Master Photographer & Retoucher w/ Renee Robyn

[00:00:00.000] - Renee Robyn
And the hard part that nobody ever talks about with brain injuries is you remember how you used to be able to think, but you can't. I spent, like, a good two years trying to accept that. With the motorcycle accident. I was like, radical acceptance. Like, all right, cool. I might lose my leg, and I might be on crutches for the rest of my life. Fine. Let's get to life. Let's do this. Because I could think after the third injury, in, like, three months, it really changed my personality, because the places that I used to escape to were out of reach, and there was nothing that I could do to get back to them.

[00:00:30.890] - Jesus Ramirez
Today's creator is Renee Robin. After a horrific motorcycle accident that ended her modeling career, Renee spent six months learning how to walk again. During her recovery, Renee developed a passion for photography and compositing. Renee is now a renowned digital artist who travels the world teaching her passion. In today's episode, Renee will share her experiences as a freelancer, her thoughts on A.I. - generated art, and her journey through life-changing injuries that eventually led her to become one of today's top creators.

[00:00:59.990] - Jesus Ramirez
Renee, I'm very excited to have you on. You may not know this, but I'm a big fan of your work. I love all the fantasy stuff that you create. I grew up playing video games myself. Final Fantasy 7 was my game. Thank you so much for being on. It's really exciting to be with you.

[00:01:13.980] - Renee Robyn
Well, likewise. I mean, I'm a gigantic fan of you, so this just all works out. So I was super excited when you asked.

[00:01:21.690] - Jesus Ramirez
Well, I'm glad you're on. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

[00:01:25.320] - Renee Robyn
I'm a Canadian photographer and digital artist, and I grew up in the prairies of Alberta, which is not the most visually exciting place. I got started in this industry from the modeling side, and then I got bored of that, and I switched over into the photography side. And so, as of March, 2023 will be my 25th anniversary in this industry.

[00:01:48.410] - Jesus Ramirez
That's amazing. Congratulations. Doesn't it feel weird because I now tell people I don't know what the actual number is? It's something like I mean, here I'm 40 years old. Like, the first time I got paid to do something creative, it must have been, like, 1819. So, theoretically speaking, I have 20 years of professional experience, which sounds insane to say.

[00:02:05.860] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, well, I'm I mean, I'm 38, so yeah, same thing. Yeah, it's wild to say that at 38, I've got 25 years of experience in something.

[00:02:14.330] - Jesus Ramirez
It's insane. That's why your work so good. So it shows.

[00:02:17.440] - Renee Robyn
Right?

[00:02:18.270] - Jesus Ramirez
I don't know how much the science will back this up, but at least in terms of motivation, I am someone who would subscribe to the 10,000 hours rule that you need about 10,000 hours worth of effort to become good at something. It's true to a degree and I think you definitely put in the work.

[00:02:33.940] - Renee Robyn
I think my debate on that is at 10,000 hours gets you to the point where you are consistent and you're reliable, but where you actually start to really get good starts at 10,000 hours.

[00:02:44.580] - Jesus Ramirez
Fair enough. I'll take that. Now you kind of like hopped over it. You mentioned that you were a model. Yeah, I was doing a little bit of reading about you and I read that you had an accident that kind of helped you propel your career into photography, compositing and all that. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[00:03:01.210] - Renee Robyn
Yeah. So that basically is how the switch really happened. I mean, I was eleven years into modeling and I was kind of like bored and everything else and kind of over it and I was just like, well I wonder what else is out there? And I had a point and shoot camera and it had this little flower setting on it called macro, but I didn't know what macro was.

[00:03:19.330] - Jesus Ramirez
The flower setting?

[00:03:20.830] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, I can take pictures of flowers really close up. How cool is that? And so I started taking photos of macro stuff and I loved it and I thought it was really fun and really refreshing, especially from being tired of modeling. I was just like, if I see another photo of someone's face, I'm going to throw myself off a bridge. I just don't care anymore. So anyways, but on top of that, I also build and ride motorbikes. And I was riding to work one day and I got hit and run over.

[00:03:45.610] - Jesus Ramirez
Ouch.

[00:03:46.400] - Renee Robyn
Yeah. When I stopped sliding, I took a deep breath in and out and my leg was crushed and everything. All traumatic events. The person that hit the ground wasn't the person they peeled off it half an hour later. But it was so funny. Once I stopped sliding I was just like, I guess this changes everything. And just like massive personnel. The switch happened right then and there. It was very weird and it did change everything. I mean, I was supposed to be walking fashion week in a few weeks, like, well, three weeks. And I was like, oh, do you think I'll be able to walk in three weeks? And the doctor is like, you're going to be lucky to keep your leg.

[00:04:23.130] - Jesus Ramirez
Oh my God.

[00:04:25.350] - Renee Robyn
Okay. You're going to have to learn how to walk again.

[00:04:27.960] - Jesus Ramirez
Yeah.

[00:04:28.360] - Renee Robyn
Oh, okay. This is a lot more serious than I thought it was. So yeah, that was an experience. And then digital art started from there because at the time, I mean, this is preflern, precreative live. I mean, YouTube wasn't even really a thing. I think Calvin Hollywood had digital painting tutorials and there was like PSD Tuts, which they were like written word tutorial stuff.

[00:04:51.710] - Jesus Ramirez
I remember them.

[00:04:55.390] - Renee Robyn
I heard the whisperings of this word from video game developers that I knew about compositing, and I was like, well, what is that? Well, you kind of just mix the two of them. I was like, oh, you can mix the two of them. That's interesting, because I'm stuck in this bed and I'm a very social person, and I've never been stuck in a bed in a room in my life. And I was stuck in this thing for, like, six months. I would leave, I would get my daily outing to go to Physio to try and figure out how to work my foot again.

[00:05:24.790] - Jesus Ramirez
And by the way, I'm smiling and laughing not at the situation, only because I can empathize. I've been through a similar situation where you're in bed, you have to go look and talk to the physical therapist and all that sort of stuff, and it's resonating with me. So my smiles not at your mishap is that oh, man, I went through.

[00:05:40.990] - Renee Robyn
The same yeah, well, you had a TIAas well. I had one in 2015. So when I saw what had happened with you, I was just like, oh, man, that's a hard road. But it looks like you've done a really good job on recovery. That's amazing.

[00:05:56.070] - Jesus Ramirez
Yeah, it definitely took a lot of work. And I have an obsessive personality, so I just got obsessed with getting better. And my obsession was prior to that was work. As far as I know, you've had three brain injuries or brain situations. Correct.

[00:06:10.920] - Renee Robyn
Concussions. Yeah, concussions. And yeah, the last one was actually just over a year ago. We got my mum and I got T boned in a car accident. Woman blew a stop sign. And so, yeah, that was my third.

[00:06:23.070] - Jesus Ramirez
Oh, my God.

[00:06:24.430] - Renee Robyn
Brain stuff.

[00:06:27.530] - Jesus Ramirez
How does that affect your work? I'm sure it affects your personal life. No doubt. As far as I understand, you're a freelancer, so how does that affect your clients? How does that affect the motivation to just keep working when you're having these medical situations?

[00:06:41.570] - Renee Robyn
I can't starvation is a hell of a motivator.

[00:06:44.190] - Jesus Ramirez
That's a good point. That's a very good point.

[00:06:47.250] - Renee Robyn
Visa doesn't care. Visa does. My heating bill, I think what it especially the last one really taught me was how and when to start outsourcing. So I'd had a bunch of clients work that I had shot, and all of a sudden I can't actually look at a screen. Like, I'd never had a brain injury quite like that before, where I had just looking at screens was impossible for about three months.

[00:07:14.860] - Jesus Ramirez
Right?

[00:07:15.320] - Renee Robyn
And I was just like, I have work to do. Like, oh, my God, I have all this stuff to do. So I started finding Retouchers and other companies that I could say, like, okay, I need you to do this for me just so that the clients can get their work. And even if I take a cut on what I'm getting paid for it, at least the clients are getting the work that they've hired me for 100%.

[00:07:35.960] - Jesus Ramirez
And I think it's very important. It's a lesson that also took me a while to get to where, like, I don't have to do everything. You might be the best person for every single job. You might be the best person to wear every single hat, but that only means that something doesn't get done. So something is better than 80% of the way, there than not. And oftentimes that's just pure ego. Other people are going to do the work just as good, if not better. So you just have to get over it. So you and I are very similar in a lot of ways. We both travel a lot. You probably travel more than me. But I found it very difficult for me to manage deadlines, stress, all these different projects, keeping in touch with my team. How do you manage that? Because it seems like from the outside, it seems like you do it very successfully.

[00:08:22.470] - Renee Robyn
Oh, man, I just dropped a lot of balls. I feel like from the inside, I just feel like I'm constantly letting someone down. But anyways, yeah, it's just like a rolodex of priorities. So I kind of try to control the chaos a little bit, but I also make sure that I travel with twelve terabytes of data between client work and, like, background images that I might be needing and everything, just to set out the fires of when the client calls. And they're like, oh, we really like this one. Can we get two more versions of it by tomorrow? And I'm like, I just landed in Amsterdam. Sure, let's do it. I happen to have your files with me. So I travel with my client, work for up to two years, and they know that. And that's part of the reason why they hire me, is that they'll book me for the shoot, and then they'll hire me for the retouching up to two years later. And so then that's one way I found that I kind of try to control the chaos as opposed to having to be, can we do this shoot, like, every single quarter?

[00:09:22.940] - Renee Robyn
I'm like, well, let's do one shoot a year, and then I will have all that information with me. And then as you need it throughout the year, I'll do the retouching as it's needed.

[00:09:30.710] - Jesus Ramirez
That's something that a lot of people don't think about. All this extra effort that goes into being a freelancer and having these relationships with these clients that sure, people may see your beautiful photo online, your beautiful composite, but they don't realize, oh, yeah, Renee is traveling with, I'm assuming, £50 worth of equipment everywhere she goes everywhere.

[00:09:50.150] - Renee Robyn
Yeah. My backpack, prior to getting injured a year ago anyways, was between like 40 and 60 pounds on average. 

[00:09:58.520] - Jesus Ramirez
Jesus!... And this is why I wanted to ask you this question. I'm completely the opposite. I'm terrible at traveling with equipment. I don't even travel with my Wacom tablet just because, I just can't! I try to travel as light as possible. But then I get into these situations where I'm like, "oh my God!" I'm in Vegas or whatever, and I can't work because I don't have my stuff. And then that creates extra stress when I get home. And now I'm working all night.

[00:10:21.350] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, I hate that. I'd rather carry the weight and just know that, okay, these meetings today, I have to get these done, and I'm going to go back to my hotel room tonight and just like, punch these out and then go to bed.

[00:10:32.190] - Jesus Ramirez
Right.

[00:10:32.560] - Renee Robyn
And then it's basically traveling with a little fire with me all the time so that I can put out figure fires or maybe yeah, fire extinguisher. I'm traveling with a little fire extinguisher.

[00:10:45.550] - Jesus Ramirez
We kind of know each other, but not really. I don't even know how we became Facebook friends.

[00:10:49.550] - Renee Robyn
Probably a trade show. Probably Lisa carney.

[00:10:51.700] - Jesus Ramirez
Probably. And that's what I was going to say. I only remember meeting you one time in person, and that was just before the world ended. That was January 2020. And I remember being in I believe it was a mirage at a bar. And you said hello to me. Yes, sir. We had a conversation that was very, very short. Is weird because I feel like I know you, but I really don't know you know what I mean?

[00:11:15.640] - Renee Robyn
The Internet makes that sensation very strange.

[00:11:18.430] - Jesus Ramirez
Exactly. Yeah. I have some assumptions, and I don't know if they're right or wrong. I'm just going to ask the question.

[00:11:24.410] - Renee Robyn
Let's hear it. I want to hear these assumptions.

[00:11:26.690] - Jesus Ramirez
You work with some huge clients. You can name them if you want. I know Adobe is a client. I know you work with many different huge clients. And how do you handle a situation where you pour your soul into a project, but then you have to distance yourself from it and not get too attached because somebody might say, you know what? This is not a good idea. Or you know what? I don't like it. We're going to have to change this. How do you handle that as an artist and also as a professional?

[00:11:54.850] - Renee Robyn
This is going to sound really weird, but I just don't pour my soul into it. I acknowledge, especially on big commercial shoots, I'm a cognitive wheel and I'm a service provider. I'm basically like the waitress of pixels. Right. And if my client wants more chicken on their pixels than I originally had brought out, then I will go back and get more chicken to put on their pixels.

[00:12:16.370] - Jesus Ramirez
Perfect. You know what? I was actually pushing for that answer because it's difficult being public to a degree online, in the sense that people will always criticize your work, and a lot of the time it's work that they see because somebody paid you to do that type of work, which meant that there was more than one chef in the kitchen. And they'll say, you know what? I don't like that this should have been like that. And my answer usually is, yeah, I agree with you, but that's not what the client wanted. Yeah, I think that's one of the realities that people don't understand. If they're not yet in the creative industry and want to get into it, that a lot of the time. Most of this stuff is stuff that you probably would have done differently if you had the final say. But as you say, you are just the chef. And if they want more pixel chickens and that's what they get.

[00:13:00.220] - Renee Robyn
Exactly. Yeah. I don't take it personally. I mean, sometimes it will frustrate me, but depending on what the campaign is, I kind of like it when someone else is the art director. Just like, tell me what you want, I will make this happen for you. You want to change it up? Cool. This is my hourly rate. We can change this as long as you want. You write that check, we're good.

[00:13:24.420] - Jesus Ramirez
You know what? That's how I feel. Not that I rather but if the professional relationship is I'm going to pay you for you to complete this design, it's a lot easier for me if you tell me exactly what you want and it'll get done. You know what I mean?

[00:13:37.110] - Renee Robyn
100%.

[00:13:37.700] - Jesus Ramirez
It's super easy. But it's a completely different situation if you're creating work for yourself. And that's actually something I wanted to talk to you about. You have a lot of great work online, and some of the stuff that you do post online is professional.

[00:13:52.070] - Renee Robyn
I'm going to call you whenever I need an ego boost. It's nice things to me. I'm feeling bad about work today.

[00:13:58.650] - Jesus Ramirez
I have no problem with that. No, but what I wanted to ask you is how do you develop your ideas when you're sitting at night, laying in bed or whatever? I'm sure that there's a little spark. How does it go from that one spark to here, a year, a month, whatever later until it becomes an actual project? How does the inspiration process in making it into a reality happen for you?

[00:14:21.410] - Renee Robyn
Oh, my God. All the ways, every way. All of them. There isn't really like one streamlined way other than the most common. My best ideas come when I'm dreaming. So that means I have to get enough sleep to get to REM sleep, which is sometimes hard to find.

[00:14:37.050] - Jesus Ramirez
How do you manage to do it on the road? That's my question.

[00:14:40.010] - Renee Robyn
Drugs. Pharmaceuticals.

[00:14:44.000] - Jesus Ramirez
Fair enough.

[00:14:45.370] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, just like, put me down for 8 hours. Let's go.

[00:14:49.130] - Jesus Ramirez
That's interesting because most of your work, at least the way that I see it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it feels like I'm reading a fantasy novel or maybe playing a video game. So it's interesting that you say dreaming.

[00:15:00.770] - Renee Robyn
Too much of both.

[00:15:01.890] - Jesus Ramirez
Fair enough. Talking about fantasy novels, your work is very reminiscent of Frank Francetta. He Used to do comic book and fantasy book covers back in it. They unfortunately passed away in 2010.

[00:15:14.230] - Renee Robyn
I have the Death Dealer book here.

[00:15:15.620] - Jesus Ramirez
Oh, you do?

[00:15:16.470] - Renee Robyn
One of my good friends worked with Frank for years and wrote the Death Dealer series with him, and he actually lives here in Edmonton, which makes no sense to me.

[00:15:25.270] - Jesus Ramirez
Wow. You live in Edmonton?

[00:15:27.100] - Renee Robyn
He does. I do, yeah. Which is, like, normally a horrible thing to say, but I've got these amazing people here, so that part is pretty great.

[00:15:34.590] - Jesus Ramirez
Yeah, again, it's interesting. That what sparks creativity is dreaming. And your output seems very fantasy dream like, to a degree. So I think it's pretty cool.

[00:15:44.450] - Renee Robyn
Well, when I was young, I had no idea who Frank Crisetta was. And then as I got into photography, a bunch of people were saying, like, oh, man, your works really like, Frank Crossetta. Franketta frank Kazetta. And I was like, I don't know who this dude is. Like, I know who Brahm is, I know who Louis Rio is, but I'd never heard his last name. And then people started showing me as I finally well, I looked it up and I was like, oh, that guy, I love that dude's work. He's amazing. So it was really a subconscious influence, I think. But also, I found these photos. If I had been pre-planning on this, I would have brought them and packed them. But I found this photo album when I was six years old, and I had cut out my cat and, you know, he I had taken a photo of him, like, jumping off the bunk bed because, you know, we had a farmhouse, right? So, you know, cats and dogs and horses and everything else there, but he was jumping off the bunk bed and I cut him out and I put him in like I pasted him as if he was jumping into the fish tank.

[00:16:39.540] - Renee Robyn
And so it was like like early compositing that I didn't even know without Photos analog. People always ask. Totally, yeah, like, vintage. And people always ask, how did you get into compositing? And I always thought that I mean, I started in photoshop seven, not like CS seven, but photoshop seven.

[00:16:56.370] - Jesus Ramirez
Me too.

[00:16:56.710] - Renee Robyn
Same one? Yeah, I started with that, making fonts and stuff like that, but then I didn't apply it to photography until years later. And I all of a sudden realized when I found this photo and when I moved, I was like, I've always been thinking about compositing. I just didn't know what it was. I'd always been looking at the world not for what it was, but for what it could be. And compositing has definitely made that possible. It makes me get out of wherever I am and I can bring the world from here out into something that's real.

[00:17:28.190] - Jesus Ramirez
How long were you in bed after your accident?

[00:17:31.310] - Renee Robyn
It took me six months to learn how to walk again.

[00:17:33.240] - Jesus Ramirez
Oh, my God. I can't even imagine. I mean, it took me a month and a half. So nothing compared to two years. Yeah, still. But I had my brain thing, my stroke during COVID so I couldn't have any visitors. So I was in the hospital for close to a week by myself, and all I kept thinking about was just work. I just remember thinking, oh, my God, what am I going to do if my body doesn't work anymore? But if I can't walk anymore, what am I going to do? And one of the funniest things now, funny looking back at it, is I was laying in bed, and I remember thinking, okay, I'm going to try to do a composite in my head. And then in my head, I was trying to figure out where all the menus and stuff were and if I could still put things together in my head. Obviously, I couldn't check myself off to see if I had done it right. But in my mind, I was like, okay, I can still do it. I'm fine.

[00:18:23.910] - Renee Robyn
Yeah.

[00:18:24.480] - Jesus Ramirez
The reason I'm telling you this story is, was there anything like that when you were in the hospital that you're like, okay, this is my planner. Let me make sure that I'm okay to proceed on my passion, which at the time might have not been compositing, but maybe photography.

[00:18:39.230] - Renee Robyn
Not so much the first time, but in 2015, when I had the other brain injury, I mean, so there were three in a row in, like, a very short sequence of time. And the second one was the TIA. And that was scary because I lost, like, my close up vision. But what was interesting is, so if you look at my work pre 2015, it's very desaturated and very gray. And that's because you know those hue awareness tests that you can do?

[00:19:06.880] - Jesus Ramirez
Yeah.

[00:19:07.340] - Renee Robyn
I only ever got, like, 75% ever. I'm in Seattle at Creative Live, and I still don't have my close-up visions yet. I wasn't back yet. I didn't tell them until after I was done the presentation. I was like, I've just had a stroke.

[00:19:23.450] - Jesus Ramirez
Oh, my God.

[00:19:26.450] - Renee Robyn
But it was for photo week, and it was my first time, and I was super excited, and I was like, oh, my God. What was so interesting is I was in the hotel across the street, and I was looking at everything, and I was looking at everything, and I was like, Why does everything look different? I don't understand why everything looks different. Everything looks the same, but everything looks different. And all of a sudden, I realized I was like, all the leaves are different shades of green.

[00:19:53.520] - Jesus Ramirez
Oh, my God.

[00:19:54.700] - Renee Robyn
I had no idea. I just thought green was green. There was, like, three shades of green, and that was it. And I'm looking at the tiles in the hotel, and I'm realizing I was like, can I see color better? What is happening? I can only sit up for 4 hours a day, and then I have to lay down again, but am I seeing color better? And I just I ran up to my hotel room, I did the hue awareness test, and I got 100%, and I just dropped my laptop. What's happening right now? And so I had to reteach myself color theory because I could suddenly see color, and I could see all of the colors, and I was just like, did I just get a benefit from frying my brain? I still can only sit up for 4 hours at a shot, but I can see color. That's, like, weird. And so, yeah, I had to really consciously study color. Do you know James Gurney?

[00:20:48.770] - Jesus Ramirez
No, I don't.

[00:20:50.120] - Renee Robyn
He's this amazing photorealistic painter. He has the most incredible book called Color and Light. And I just devoured the book, like, cover to cover, like four or five times just to make sure that I understood color theory, because all of a sudden I could see it. Because before, people were splitting color theory to me, and I was like, I don't get it. Like, I don't because because I just couldn't see it. It was very weird.

[00:21:10.970] - Jesus Ramirez
So when you look back at your early work and you think about like, oh, you know what? If I were to use these complementary colors, things would have been better, you're like, no, never mind. This in the past. And now it's my new talent, though.

[00:21:21.710] - Renee Robyn
In 2017, 2018, something like that, I did a rebrand and I went back and I re edited, like, 300 images, and some of them made it onto the website, a bunch of them didn't, where I was just like, no, this image is still crap.

[00:21:36.750] - Jesus Ramirez
It's just still no matter how much I increase that Saturation or that vibrance is still...

[00:21:41.740] - Renee Robyn
Is still just bad photo.

[00:21:45.330] - Jesus Ramirez
It's crazy to hear you talk about those numbers because you have so much work and it's a lot of good work. Where do you find the time? Because I know how long post-processing takes. And I've seen some of your work, and I'm like, all right, that's at least 20 hours. Then I see, like, 30 others, and I'm like, oh, my God, where do you find all this time?

[00:22:04.950] - Renee Robyn
I'm really selfish.

[00:22:06.684] - Jesus Ramirez
Hmm.

[00:22:07.350] - Renee Robyn
Basically, that boils down to. I prioritize my client work, obviously. But even more so, I prioritize my personal work. Even though I never really have enough time because of the client work, to do the quality of work I would like to do on my personal stuff. Like, I would love to be able to spend, like, two, three, four days working on an image. I just don't have time.

[00:22:28.670] - Jesus Ramirez
Right.

[00:22:29.040] - Renee Robyn
And that is the one thing that I tell people when they're first getting into this. And you're like, oh, how do I want to turn this thing that I love into a job? And I'm like, man, do it because you love it for as long as possible. Because as soon as this becomes your career, it changes the game. And the purest way to pursue art is just because we love it. And that's so important. And I really think that artists should not skip that step. In the middle of my career, especially when things were super crazy busy, I stopped prioritizing personal work and I would just burn out and burn out and burn out and burn out, and then I was just like, no, stop this.

[00:23:06.990] - Renee Robyn
If I am making less money. But I'm creating the work that I want to create and I'm getting sleep awesome. It just wasn't worth crushing myself into the ground anymore. And especially post brain injuries, I just couldn't anymore. Anyways, I had to sleep, definitely.

[00:23:21.250] - Jesus Ramirez
And that's actually something that was recommended by my neurologist, that I needed to sleep more. And I had no problem going to bed at 02:00 a.m., working late and then waking up eight and then continued work. I was perfectly fine. And now I have to find that extra time to sleep just because I don't want something to happen or just not be able to cognitively be aware during the day.

[00:23:43.750] - Renee Robyn
I had never had up until 2015, I'd never had an injury that took away my inner garden, I guess is the worst cliche word to use ever. But I'd never had an injury that took away my ability to think in the way that that did. And it never really had never to come back the way to pre injury anyways, it came back like 85, 90%, which is pretty good considering what the injuries were, but it was never 100%. And the hard part that nobody ever talks about with brain injuries is you remember how you used to be able to think but you can't. And that's a really like, I spent like a good two years trying to accept that, which is with the motorcycle accident. I was like, radical acceptance. Like, all right, cool, I might lose my leg and I might be on crutches for the rest of my life. Fine, let's get to life. Let's do this. Because I could think right, that was there. And then in 2015, especially after the third injury in like, three months, it really changed my personality because the places that I used to escape to were out of reach and there was nothing that I could do to get back to them.

[00:24:50.240] - Renee Robyn
And especially in 2015, there was not enough. What's the word I'm looking for? This happens a lot now, especially in the last year. No, this is happening right now. Hold on 1 second. I apologize.

[00:25:05.490] - Jesus Ramirez
I'm the same way. This is why the podcast is edited, because the suits might forget a word or two.

[00:25:10.710] - Renee Robyn
Oh, it's fine if people see this, because this is the reality of a head injury, but oh, my God, this is happening. I'm turning red right now because it's embarrassing sometimes.

[00:25:22.950] - Jesus Ramirez
Don't worry, we'll bring the saturation. Down. Nobody will be able to tell me.

[00:25:27.110] - Renee Robyn
Just you adjust me a little, just a little bit.

[00:25:29.630] - Jesus Ramirez
We'll get our editors color correct. You'll look flawless.

[00:25:33.310] - Renee Robyn
Oh man, so bad. I'm sorry to everyone who's listening.

[00:25:37.630] - Jesus Ramirez
That's okay. Well, how about this? If you remember your point, feel free to stop what we're talking about and say, hey, you know what, this is my point.

[00:25:44.930] - Renee Robyn
It might come back.

[00:25:46.590] - Jesus Ramirez
Something that I learned about you was something very interesting about three kittens in your family farm and how you had a white one named Sprite. And how Sprite eventually helped you get new meaning for photography and capturing moments. And that's really what the question is about. I want you to tell us a little bit about Sprite, but more importantly, how Sprite helped you create that appreciation for capturing moments, which is something I'm trying to get back into.

[00:26:17.110] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, I mean Sprite was my dear little doom ploof. She was the earliest wonder. She had lost her ears to frostbite. And my dad finally retired her off the farm and he was just like, this is the only cat that's ever lived long enough. I mean, they usually get eaten by coyotes or hawks or something. I mean, it's farm cat life, unfortunately. But these cats have jobs. Their jobs are to kill the rats and Birmingham anyways. This little cat had lived when we did not think she was going to. She was a little dumb. She was white half the year she is hawk food and somehow she avoided it all. So my dad called me up and it was actually the same year that I had the brain injury. So I was really suffering and I really needed a way out of that. And so my dad was just like, here's responsibility. An aging cat. This little cat was my therapy and she was so grateful to be living inside. I mean, she liked being outside because she just loves cat. She's a predator. She loves to kill things, right? And she's a very good mouser.

[00:27:21.950] - Renee Robyn
And so I have this cat in my house and I'm healing from a brain injury and the depression and everything else that comes along with it when your brain chemistry is just that out of whack. And I started looking around and this little cat is not going to be around for forever. She's 17 at the time and I have no idea how long, especially at that age for cats. Is it going to be a month? Is it going to be a year? Is it going to be about it being like two and a half years? So she lived to almost 20 years old and I gave that cat the best retirement I possibly could. But I realized that wasn't these moments mattered. This little cat had a profound impact on me from a child, from when I was 13. And then I always make time to see her when I go out to the farm to my dads and everything. And here she was. She was like my little service animal of being like, hey, you got to get up and you got to get out of bed because I'm hungry. Because even if I couldn't get out of bed, out of bed to feed myself, I would get up to feed the cat.

[00:28:20.100] - Renee Robyn
And if I got up, if I could get myself out of bed to feed the cat, then I could probably have a shower, which means I could probably feed myself, right? And so these little moments between this cat and I were really important. And I realized that I can document this on my phone all day long, but I've got $10,000 in camera equipment here that I've spent over the years. And why don't I actually document this stuff? These little tiny moments of her sleeping in the sunbeam with her little I mean, I used to joke that she looked like tiny Falcore because she had no ears. My favorite thing was like, her resting bitch face. She just looked angry all the time, even though she was so sweet. She just had that face. She had the face of a villain. And documenting those little moments became really important. And I love those photos. Those photos are so important to me. And even up until the day that ultimately I had to put it down, I had two photographer friends come over, and I had one of them. I had him photograph nice photos of Sprite and myself, even though I did not look good.

[00:29:21.270] - Renee Robyn
I was tears with puffy eyes and everything, but just to have some nice photos of her that I hadn't taken. And then I had another friend come over who's a journalist, and I had the journalism experience and everything. And I was just like, hey, man, I need you to photograph this how it actually is, because I'm going to regret this decision. I'm going to question whether I made the right choices or not. I need you to document this for what it actually is. I need you to photograph the ugly without making it look ugly or I just need you to photograph the truth. And so he was there and he was photographing when she was having seizures and stuff like that. And so I still have those photos means so much to me. Like, even now, you know, it's been like five and a half years, and I still think about those images and they're so important to me because that little cat had such an impact on me. That was really how I started reconnecting with, like, why photography is actually important, outside of it being just a commercial thing of like, this is how I, you know, feed myself and this is how I all these things.

[00:30:15.490] - Renee Robyn
And like but photography at the end of the day is about documenting our lives and whether we choose to print them or not, we have these skills? Why don't we use them with the people closest to us? Why are we only ever giving them away to the companies and the corporations? Which is great, and I'm grateful for those opportunities, but why are we only ever using it?

[00:30:36.990] - Jesus Ramirez
There we don't have a lot of time, and there's a couple of things that I still want to get to. You're talking about having these skills. What do you think it takes to become a professional creative in your case of a freelancer, if you want to use that word. I don't know how many slashes after your name you're going to have if you're a composite or photographer, whatever you define what that means. But what does it take to get to that level, you think.

[00:31:03.490] - Renee Robyn
So? I get asked this question a lot right now, and really the biggest game changer that hasn't had time to mature yet is AI.

[00:31:09.840] - Jesus Ramirez
Art.

[00:31:10.790] - Renee Robyn
And so the reality is that I don't actually know anymore because everything is changing. Like AI. Art. I figured I had another two years left before I'd really have to think about, like, okay, now what? Right? I mean, I'm already losing a number of, like, a lot of clients too.

[00:31:27.840] - Jesus Ramirez
Really?

[00:31:28.280] - Renee Robyn
AI art. Oh, yeah. 100%. I mean, none of the big corporate.

[00:31:31.490] - Renee Robyn
What were they hiring you to do?

[00:31:33.230] - Renee Robyn
Like, album art, book cover art, things like that. It's the shrapnel work, you know, it's the $500 to $1,000 jobs that are like, you know. It's the filler work. But the filler work is just like, overnight just disappeared, and it's wild.

[00:31:46.610] - Jesus Ramirez
Wow.

[00:31:47.200] - Renee Robyn
So, I mean, people who are professionals in the industry are going like, okay, you know, who have 30, 40 years experience are having the same questions of, like, what's actually next? And the technology and the legal side of it all has to mature. But it happened way faster than I thought it would. And I mean, on one side, I think it's so funny because people say, like, oh, the art lacks soul and everything else. I'm like, yeah, sometimes it does, and sometimes it's a direct rip off of existing artists and you just hire the artist. But there's some artwork that's getting put out there and I use the word loosely, but collections of pixels, whatever, that's actually really thought provoking work that people were not making and they weren't making on that level. And it's actually super compelling, some of it. Like, with everything, with all art, with all photography, with all everything, there's a percentage of it where you're just like, that's very cool. I mean, it's inspiring and terrifying all at the same time because there are things that these programs can make, obviously can make it faster and obviously can make it better than I can do.

[00:32:54.870] - Renee Robyn
And I'm totally fine with admitting that. But on the other side, it's so inspiring because it's like, wow, those are ideas that people just hadn't really thought of before. And I really wonder how that's going to fuel the creative industry. How it's going to influence fashion. How it's going to influence the design of cars. How it's going to influence architectural design. Because it's going to and that's amazing. But what does it mean for professionals? I don't even have an answer for that right now. I feel like... I thought I had two more years of thinking on it before. And then just Midjourney 4 came out and I was like, "damn!"

[00:33:34.700] - Jesus Ramirez
Yeah.

[00:33:37.010] - Renee Robyn
There's a lot of crap out there, and there's a lot of bad art out there. But every now and then I find a piece where I'm just like, I've never seen a person make that. That's very cool. And that probably took three minutes.

[00:33:49.770] - Jesus Ramirez
On a slow computer.

[00:33:51.370] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, right. Exactly! Rightit's? Like it's insane! So it really does change the conversation of, like, what do you want to do if you want to do this? Professionally experienced pros with many more years of experience than me are asking themselves the exact same question right now. This is like, a huge shift, and I'm excited and terrified all at the same time of just like, what does this actually mean?

[00:34:12.560] - Jesus Ramirez
What do you think her next move will be?

[00:34:14.690] - Renee Robyn
I don't even know. If I knew it, I'd already be going there. On one hand, I'm never an early adopter. I'm really guilty of that. I'm very slow. I like to sit back and sniff the air and kind of observe from the outside for a little while before I finally start dipping my toes in. But it's a big shift and it's happening to so many industries simultaneously. It's very disruptive and yeah, I don't know. People smarter than me have had far more compelling conversations about it, but I.

[00:34:54.370] - Jesus Ramirez
Just think that you mentioned it. Right. Things are changing. They're definitely going to change. I agree with your comment about I thought I had a little more time before this really became a thing, but it's now a thing. Like, today as we sit here, it's.

[00:35:09.510] - Renee Robyn
A thing when mid journey five comes out, like, what the hell?

[00:35:13.460] - Jesus Ramirez
Yeah. I'm not necessarily worried at the like, maybe it should be. I don't know, maybe I'm just naive, but I've always had that mentality of like, all right, whatever it is, I'll figure it out. Right. I also sit in a very privileged position of saying, well, I got my training business, I got my compositing, I got different pots in different places, so if one dries out, then there's still a few others. So maybe I am saying this with that quote, unquote privilege, but I've always been the kind of person who looked at things as an opportunity. I'm with you that I don't know what my next move is when speaking about AI art, but I do see it as an opportunity, and it's just something that I'm going to have to figure out. And I wish I could give you an answer as to how I'm going to use it or what I will do with it, but I do see it as opportunity. Not scared yet? Maybe I should be. I don't know.

[00:36:05.350] - Renee Robyn
At the end of the day, no matter what, they're really good. Artists are always going to rise to the top just because digital photography came out. Analog film. Lots of people still make a living on analog film. How? I don't know how, but they're doing it. Painters who paint with oils, there's still artists out there who are making a living at it. So I think there is always going to be space for excellence.

[00:36:27.650] - Jesus Ramirez
I agree.

[00:36:28.280] - Renee Robyn
And so, as a result, I want to make sure that I also am not discouraging people from exploring a new career or hobby in the arts, because the reality is that we have no idea where the next absolutely mind boggling artist is going to come from. Right? I mean, I got into composite photography because one of my friends who worked at BioWare told me about blending modes, and I was like, Excuse me. And that changed my entire life, one conversation, right? And so I really hope that this doesn't discourage anybody. So at the end of the day, also, I'm not afraid to tell everyone, don't get a career in the arts, because I know for a fact that for the right person out there, they don't care if I tell them no. They're doing it because people told me no. People told me no all the time. They're like, don't go into photography. It's failing. It's this, it's that. Digital is ruining everything. Oh, my God. The woe is me. And so we're having that conversation again with AI artwork. Granted, this changes the game in a lot different, more significant way than just digital to film.

[00:37:36.910] - Renee Robyn
But I do think that for the right brain out there, people telling them, like, now, you shouldn't do this. They're just not going to care. They're going to do it anyways. And so I really hope that it's the people who are just underneath that where someone who is really capable of excellence is dissuaded by someone saying, well, AI can do it faster, so why are you bothering? Right? It's those people that are the ones that I worry about, where I'm just like, yeah, but you're right there, and there's millions of people all over this planet who are not living up to their potential. That is the human thing when we're all guilty of that. I could be better at paperwork looking at the side of my desk. I'm not. But yeah, I mean, I really want people to to really hold on to that inspiration.

[00:38:23.430] - Jesus Ramirez
I completely agree.

[00:38:24.710] - Renee Robyn
I always tell people that I've always been, again, terrified, but also super excited to be expired as an artist, because that means that there's people out there. Because when I came up, I took a bunch of jobs from people who, like, I took their jobs because I could do something different that company was looking for. And now since then, other people have come along, and they take my jobs. But I think that's obviously on top of just how it works. I think it's so exciting because I'm so interested in what people are making. And that's very exciting for me at the same time, terrifying because I got.

[00:38:59.570] - Jesus Ramirez
To eat something that I think is very important and something that I think needs to get talked about more. Because people who put themselves out there, especially people like you and a as I understand it, you've received some harassment online. And I don't know if it's the subject matter. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with it, but it can be if you want to use the word provocative.

[00:39:25.080] - Renee Robyn
Provocative?

[00:39:25.670] - Jesus Ramirez
Yeah. I don't know if it's the fact that you are a woman, but as I understand it, you got less when people thought you were a man.

[00:39:32.950] - Renee Robyn
100%. Oh, yeah. There's no question that started coming out that I was a woman because I was trying to shed that. I had, like, a modeling pass, so it didn't share photos of me. I wanted people to search photography, not photos of my old modeling career. And it was super funny. When I started coming out, it was a woman, man, they hate me. I got, like, freaking death threats, and I was like, guys, this is digital art. Like, who cares? Like, who cares? I'm not hurting animals. Like, it's literally pixels. It's the most throwaway. Like, this is like, you know, my partner has this really great analogy of like, you know, this is the peak of the triangle of hierarchy of needs, and we're, like, leaping off the top to find meaning. And that's really what it feels like whenever you're giving hate mail to an artist because you don't like that they photograph, but so you're just like, oh, my God, it's just happening.

[00:40:21.080] - Jesus Ramirez
I'm online, and I get stuff too. I imagine that if I were a woman, I would get X amount more than what I currently who knows, right?

[00:40:33.200] - Renee Robyn
So the difference that I find is that the language of it changed. So when people thought I was a guy, I would get, like, hate mail, go back to art school, and I was like, yeah, whatever. I don't care.

[00:40:43.740] - Jesus Ramirez
Right. Right.

[00:40:44.560] - Renee Robyn
But then when I started coming out with a woman, we're getting death threats and people sending me my home address and the address of my parents and stuff like that. And I was just like, what is going on? It definitely got a lot more personal. Whereas when people thought I was a dude, they were just like, you suck. And it was just the chest dumpy, gorilla, that stuff. Which is, whatever, I don't care.

[00:41:06.230] - Jesus Ramirez
And just to be clear, it's not like you were pretending to be a man. People just assumed that you were a man.

[00:41:11.190] - Renee Robyn
Yeah. I mean, I met people in WPPI who are friends now. And the first time I meet them, I shake their hand and like, oh, Renee. And they're like, Renee robins. Yeah. What's up? I'm so sorry. I thought you were a guy. That was when I started being like, I guess I should post photos of me a little more often, because I would show up for jobs, for meetings with clients, like, potential commercial clients, and I would show up and be like, hey. I was like, I wanted to meet everyone. Sit down. And they would just be waiting. And then like, so are we waiting for someone? Like, oh, we're just waiting for the photographer. And I'm like SUP. That's me. And they're just like, oh, my God. We thought you were the assistant.

[00:41:48.590] - Jesus Ramirez
Oh, my God, I hope you got the job.

[00:41:51.490] - Renee Robyn
I did. Yeah.

[00:41:52.880] - Jesus Ramirez
They had to at that point.

[00:41:54.930] - Renee Robyn
At that point, yeah, it was looking bad, but, I mean, it happened enough times that I was just like, okay, I have to start putting myself out there. And so it's it's been happening on my Instagram again. So I just crossed, like, 30,000 followers, which is, like, not big in that world at all, but I haven't posted a photo of myself in a while. Like, about a year or two, I think, anyways, or at least people aren't paying attention. So I'm starting to get emails being like, hey, dude. Or, like, hey, man.

[00:42:24.830] - Jesus Ramirez
Hey, bro.

[00:42:25.360] - Renee Robyn
And I'm assuming that it's exactly like bro and stuff like that. And I'm just assuming that that's just, like, a neutral term because I'll say, like, hey, dude to Lisa Carney all day long. Right? But then as they continue with the conversation, I realize, oh, you think I'm a guy? And I'm just like, yeah, I'm just.

[00:42:40.720] - Jesus Ramirez
Going to let him so funny. And the reason I brought that up is I know that the advice is, oh, you know, you just got to have a thick skin, and you just got to ignore these people. But I'm sure that's more than that, I just wanted to get your thoughts on what you do in order for that type of stuff not to bother you. Because, like I said, I put stuff online, and I gotten some very mean comments that I still remember, like, a day later that I'm still upset. I can't believe that person said that.

[00:43:10.010] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, because it hurts. I mean, you're just like, I'm trying to be good here. I'm doing my best, and you're coming up here like, what have you done with your life? Like, let's do this in the parking lot. Let's go.

[00:43:18.990] - Jesus Ramirez
Right.

[00:43:20.510] - Renee Robyn
Say that to my face.

[00:43:21.860] - Jesus Ramirez
Yeah, especially if they think you're a guy.

[00:43:24.200] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, right. But I mean, ultimately, on one side, go to therapy. That's a big one. Pay a professional. Just don't do it alone. You just don't have to handle this stuff by yourself. There are a lot of tools out there even if you're financially a little bit strapped or there's, like, support groups, just get it out of your own head and talk to somebody. That's a big one and that nobody ever talks about. Everyone's like, well, you just get thick skin, and you just go for a walk and go outside and go bare feet in the grass. I'm just like, oh my god. Come on.

[00:43:57.660] - Jesus Ramirez
No 100% agree with that. I would recommend speaking to a therapist because I do believe in mental health, especially if you're putting yourself out there and receiving a lot more input from the world that you normally would, you definitely are going to need it.

[00:44:09.380] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, especially. I mean, so, like, the first time I had some work go viral, I was just I was not prepared. I was not prepared for what that meant. And this was before the algorithms were really cutting that stuff down. And somebody comes up and they're just like, well, I could have done this better. I could have this, I could have that. And you go check out their work. And I was just like, no, you couldn't. But who cares? It doesn't matter. I mean, so that's on the flip side, that's also the speed check for me that I used to this day. Because every now and then, someone will put a comment, and I'm like, oh, shit. They're right.

[00:44:45.610] - Jesus Ramirez
It happens. It happens.

[00:44:47.610] - Renee Robyn
It totally happens. Just like, I missed something obvious. Like, I recently posted a photo of Nita Strauss and a bunch of her fans. She's she's a guitar player, and she's got freaking A Zillion followers. Anyways, someone had commented on there like, oh, the two dots above her head are distracting. And I looked at it, and I was like, yeah. Oh, you're right. That's 100% distracted. We're going to remove that for the print file. But most of the time, it comes from people who do they haven't done anything with their life. Like, the most thing that they've done is, like, shitty comments in a comment section. And the biggest thing that I always remind myself is that happy people don't write shitty things in comment sections.

[00:45:23.340] - Jesus Ramirez
They don't. No.

[00:45:24.810] - Renee Robyn
You don't even have to wish them a bad day because they're already having one. Their every day is a bad day.

[00:45:30.440] - Jesus Ramirez
I've noticed when I do get those comments, it's never an attack. It's never like, oh, you suck. You this, you that. You did this wrong. It's always like, hey, I noticed you miss this. They just call it out. They don't attack you.

[00:45:42.270] - Renee Robyn
Sometimes it's not an attack.

[00:45:44.030] - Jesus Ramirez
And usually the attacks come from people, as you said, who you click on their profile, they have no real work. You can tell that they're, as you said, having a bad day. Probably.

[00:45:54.370] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, exactly. And so it is part of having a thick skin. That is part of it. You do have to develop a thick skin. You can go to your therapist every single time somebody writes you a terrible comment. And if that's where you are in your mental health journey, you do that. But eventually you're going to get to the point where you're just like, their days worse than mine. I don't need to carry it with me.

[00:46:16.170] - Jesus Ramirez
So, Renee, I like to end the show by asking a series of lightning run questions. Some of these may be very short. They could be a little longer. Feel free to go into a story if you like. No right answer. Just whatever comes to your mind. This one is probably going to be easy for you, but maybe not. Maybe there's more stuff we don't know. Tell us a shocking fact about yourself.

[00:46:35.390] - Renee Robyn
Oh, this is my favorite one that no one ever guesses. I'm really good at country dancing.

[00:46:42.110] - Jesus Ramirez
Really? Oh, my God.

[00:46:43.890] - Renee Robyn
Everyone does that.

[00:46:44.670] - Jesus Ramirez
Okay, well, the next one, I see you in person. We're going to have to figure out where to go because I want to see this.

[00:46:49.970] - Renee Robyn
Yeah. I haven't tried since getting T bones, but I used to compete in two step, double step and jive, and I love it.

[00:46:58.060] - Jesus Ramirez
That is incredible. I am seriously a gospel. The next question is when was the last time you felt proud of yourself?

[00:47:06.550] - Renee Robyn
This is going to be like a weird answer, but I started doing trauma therapy last year.

[00:47:10.170] - Jesus Ramirez
Oh, wow. It feels hard to say, but congratulations.

[00:47:14.250] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, 100%. It's so helpful, but it's so hard to start. And I started going because of the brain injuries, and I discovered that there was a concussion clinic here in Edmonton.

[00:47:26.250] - Jesus Ramirez
Oh, wow.

[00:47:26.800] - Renee Robyn
And I was just like, what? We finally have a concussion clinic. Let's do this. And I just registered right away. Basically, I was in contortion class. I was doing contortion training. And before the class was over, I had already found it, booked an appointment, same thing as you were. Just like, there is a task. We were doing the thing until the thing is done. Go. And when I was in there, she was telling me, you probably should see a trauma therapist. And I was like, oh, well, whatever. And then I saw a different therapist and he was like, you should probably see a trauma therapist. I was like, all right. Two people said it. Let's book it. Let's do it. And I started and yeah. What an experience, what a journey. And it will be a while yet before it's done. But it's a thing when you finally take the step to the first step of just being like, okay, I am not being like, the way that I've lived my life and the responses that I have, I'm just not doing that anymore. And I'm going to start this process.

[00:48:22.370] - Jesus Ramirez
That is something you should definitely be proud of. Yeah. And congrats again. Seriously.

[00:48:27.330] - Renee Robyn
Thanks.

[00:48:28.050] - Jesus Ramirez
The next question is what is the best compliment you have ever received?

[00:48:32.540] - Renee Robyn
That is a good question. I think my favorite compliment I get is whenever I photograph somebody who is from a marginalized group, how safe they feel with me. You know, I photograph a lot of, you know, drag and transgender and other things like that. And the one comment that I get a lot is, thank you so much for making me feel safe. Thank you so much for making me feel heard. And that always feels so good because these people are often they're not heard and they're not seen, and they don't feel safe. And even if while we're shooting, if I notice they're not really feeling this, I just ask them, like, hey, what do you think about this? You seem, like, a little bit off, like, you want to change it up a little bit? And I was like, actually, yeah, that'd be great. And I'm like, let's do it. You don't want to you're not feeling this? I'm like, not doing that. Let's go. Let's change it up.

[00:49:24.210] - Jesus Ramirez
Have you had an I made it moment?

[00:49:27.810] - Renee Robyn
Ah, when I got in Heavy metal magazine.

[00:49:29.920] - Jesus Ramirez
What? Tell me about that.

[00:49:31.700] - Renee Robyn
That was so cool. I mean, I grew up reading Heavy Metal magazine from friends, the older siblings and stuff like that, and just like, that's where I discovered so many of the painters that I loved without knowing Frazetta's name. Louis Royal, Boris Vallejo, all those the standard people of art at the time. And I was just like, oh, man, it'd be really cool to get in Heavy metal magazine. That'd be really fun. And a friend of mine had done some work with Heavy Metal, and they were just like, well, here's their email.

[00:50:03.150] - Jesus Ramirez
Cool. Let's do it.

[00:50:05.070] - Renee Robyn
So I sent them an email, and they were just like, we're not really right now, but thanks for sending over your portfolio. We'll keep in touch later. Just pop them an email and be like, hey, guys, how's it going? Just like a little mouse walking into this den, feeling totally unworthy. Not right now. We don't really have anything. And like, okay, cool, cool. Six months later, like, hey, guys, how's it going? Hopefully I'm not annoying you, but hopefully you don't forget about me. Six months later after that, I get an email being like, hey, we got a spot open. Are you still interested?

[00:50:36.490] - Jesus Ramirez
Wow. But it took perseverance. You kept trying. It's not like you yeah, but I.

[00:50:41.010] - Renee Robyn
Tried to not be annoying about it because that's also a good way to get blacklisted.

[00:50:46.910] - Jesus Ramirez
You have to be tactful. No doubt about it. But you have to try.

[00:50:50.350] - Renee Robyn
Yeah, that was so cool. I mean, I would love to get into heavy metal. I don't even know who's working there anymore. I mean, it got sold since then, but yeah, that was pretty cool to see my name on the COVID of Heavy Metal. I have it in my pile of magazines there, but that's just one that I never thought I would have.

[00:51:06.630] - Jesus Ramirez
What would you like to be. Remembered for what mark do you want to leave in the world?

[00:51:11.270] - Renee Robyn
I'm okay if I'm not remembered. That's the thing that's like, I'm good with that. There's so much to pay attention to that I think the best part about most of us is that we do get to fade into nothing, right? Like, the things that we do in life, our mistakes, the things that we screw up, whatever, they actually just don't matter in the big picture. And we're very lucky because of that.

[00:51:35.570] - Jesus Ramirez
We're going to have to leave this for another show, but I 100% agree with you. I think that in a long enough timeline, nothing matters. That actually makes me feel better when something's not going the way that I want or something, quote unquote, bad happens. I think, you know what, in like, 200 years, nobody's going to remember this.

[00:51:52.790] - Renee Robyn
50 years! I'll be lucky if anyone remembers my name in 20. And I'm good with that, right?

[00:51:57.740] - Jesus Ramirez
Same.

[00:51:58.250] - Renee Robyn
Like, I think I used to want to, you know, when I was younger, wanted to be remembered for something, you know, and like I wanted to, you know, be the next obviously lack the skills to be the next Michaelangelo, that's for sure. I never had those kind of delusions, but I really wanted to have some kind of impact on someone in some way. And I think that inevitably that's going to happen anyways. No matter who you are in life, you're going to be somebody who's villain and you're going to be somebody's hero, planned or not. And I think as I've gotten older, I've just started to accept that it's totally cool that I'm someone's villain and I'm someone's hero and I'm a whole bunch of people's nobodies. And that's good with me.

[00:52:43.730] - Jesus Ramirez
I think that's a healthy way of looking at things, believe it or not. Well, Renee, thank you so much for joining me today, for being today's creator.

[00:52:53.250] - Renee Robyn
Thank you so much for having me on. I'm so excited to see what everyone else because you have really thoughtful questions. So I'm very curious to see how and what you've asked other people and how they answer.