Creative Pro's Secret To Staying Relevant For Over 30 Years w/ Colin Smith from PhotoshopCAFE

[00:00:00.000] - Colin Smith
 You've got to define the path that you want to walk. We all have a journey, and the most tragic thing is to build something amazing. You're on top of a mountain and you look out and realize you built on the wrong mountain.
 
 [00:00:13.200] - Jesus Ramirez
 Today's creator is Colin Smith. He has over 30 years of experience as a professional creative. In this episode, Colin will candidly share his thoughts on staying relevant for so many years, the passions that drive his creativity, and his setbacks on acquiring a much larger company. Colin is most well-known for running Photoshop Cafe, a YouTube channel where he teaches Photoshop to over 311,000 subscribers. He's also written 20 books on Photoshop and drones. His creative work has been featured on Time magazine and the New York Times. Recently, Colin worked alongside rock and roll hall of Famer David Lee Roth on a few creative projects. That's quite an impressive resume, my friend. I'm really excited to have you. How are you?
 
 [00:00:57.530] - Colin Smith
 Doing good. It's great to see you again, Jesus.    
 
 [00:00:59.800] - Jesus Ramirez
 A lot of people may not know, but we're actually very good friends, so I do know a little bit about your story. But start by telling us a bit about your background, where you're from, where that you grew up.
 
 [00:01:09.940] - Colin Smith
 All right. M y background is interesting. I'm actually a double immigrant. I was born in Scotland, grew up in New Zealand, and then I came to the United States in the mid-90s. Now, I'm going.
 
 [00:01:22.620] - Jesus Ramirez
 To have to interject here, and I'm sorry, I normally wouldn't do this, but I have to ask this question because I know the story, so I want you to talk a little bit about it. You're the only person I know who has been in a boat for what, two, three weeks? I want to hear about that.
 
 [00:01:38.460] - Colin Smith
 All right. I'm really giving my age away. I was on the Titanic. No, I'm kidding. But when we moved from UK to New Zealand, we literally went on a ship. It was a steamship. A steamship really makes us sound old. That's what they did. And that was in the '70s, and that's how families emigrated. So our whole family went on the ship and took us quite a long time at sea. 
 
 [00:02:05.400] - Jesus Ramirez
 That's incredible. So how did you get into the creative industry?
 
 [00:02:08.940] - Colin Smith
 I've always been a creative kid, since I remember. A lot of the things I enjoyed was actually making scale models. I used to build those as a kid and that was my hobby. I would build those and I would paint them there very intricately. Because I couldn't afford new models, I would literally tear them apart and rebuild them and paint them. Paint them differently and then start cutting them up and making the doors open. I did what I could. We weren't very wealthy, so I had to use my creative imagination to make my own toys and stuff, which really, I think, has served me a lot today because the early thing is like, you learn to innovate, you learn to make do with what you've got and create things. And then as far as getting into the creative industry, it was something I always wanted to do. I didn't think it was even possible for me to do, particularly it, especially New Zealand. But then I came to the US. I wasn't planning on staying. I was just visiting for a while and studying, of course. And then I happened to just do a little bit of freelance.
 
 [00:03:12.720] - Colin Smith
 I did a little freelance job for a guy. And then his boss saw it and then there was an opening at that point. And then they approached me and said, Hey, we've been trying to find someone to do this. We haven't been able to find anybody. Would you be interested in doing this? And I said, Well, I'm not from the US. And they said, Well, we'll sponsor you and everything like that. And I was like, Okay. So that was basically how I got started into the design industry. Literally, that was my first job.
 
 [00:03:38.590] - Jesus Ramirez
 You've been in the creative industry for quite some time, and I actually started following you, Colin, at Photoshop Cafe when I was in school. But the point that I'm trying to make is that you've been around for a really long time. And one of the things that I do admire about you, not necessarily just your creative talent, is how you manage to stay relevant throughout the decades, which is very difficult to do. Where does that drive come from, for a lack of a better term, to stay relevant? Because I think it's very difficult to do. My hat off to you on doing it for so long.
 
 [00:04:13.910] - Colin Smith
 Well, thanks for that. Staying relevant is important if you want to stay in business.
 
 [00:04:20.800] - Jesus Ramirez
 For sure.
 
 [00:04:22.560] - Colin Smith
 And it's not that I necessarily consciously say, you know what? I'm going to reinvent myself now. I'm going to become this. I'm curious when new things come out, I like to play with them. I'm playing around with VR and all that stuff right now. And what I do in Photoshop Cafe, a lot of the things I experiment with, I don't share on there. That's just for me. And then sometimes that curiosity becomes a passion. And then I get into it and then I really enjoy it. Then what happens is I start to put out work. Because I believe the work is driven by passion, then you obtain a following. What's curious about back in my day when I got started as a trainer, my path was a little different. I didn't get started as a trainer because I was really knowledgeable about Photoshop. What it was is the work I was creating was inspiring people. My first books net came because of my work. Then Office started to come in and people wanted me to write books and speak at conferences and do all these things because people wanted to know how I did what I did.
 
 [00:05:21.940] - Colin Smith
 Even like drones, I became the number one on Skyp exel, which is the DJI's social media. I became the number one liked and followed photographer on there. And it wasn't because I was trying to do that. It was just because I really loved it. And then when your heart's in something and you're passionate, you're going to seek out all the information you can possibly get on it. You're going to absorb it like a sponge. A lot of people my age stop learning. They stop being curious. You say a child can absorb information in a way an adult can, and that's because the adult chooses not to. They focus their attention on other things, or they split their attention, or they lose focus or forget to look at detail because they just get so carried up in the routine. When I find something I'm passionate about, my mind becomes like a child's mind and just absorbs absolutely everything. And because of that, it keeps you fresh. It keeps you on the edge. And my mind doesn't think like someone my age typically does. It thinks more like someone like your age.
 
 [00:06:18.190] - Jesus Ramirez
 We're not that far apart, man.
 
 [00:06:20.180] - Colin Smith
 You're not that far behind me. But you know what I mean? So when you find something new, and that's actually been proven, I'm not trying to get into that, being an amateur doctor or scientist or anything like that. But it's actually been proven that if a mind keeps learning, that keeps the mind malleable. It's like a muscle. When you find something new and you're passionate about it, then I guess you stay relevant. If it becomes a passion, you stick at it long enough, you get good at it. That's not just for me, it's for anybody. The difference between someone that's good and someone that's not good is passion. You'll be very, very hard-pressed to find someone that's good at something who's not passionate at it.
 
 [00:06:57.060] - Jesus Ramirez
 I completely agree with that.
 
 [00:06:58.240] - Colin Smith
 Because that makes you hungry. Otherwise, you just do the bare minimum, right? Talking about drones, I was an early adopter and I'm looking for information, and I had peers and friends that I was learning from. And eventually, you look behind you and there's people following you. I'm not saying there's people that know more about drones than me, guys like Barry and Romeo that told me a lot about that side of it. Where my skill came is understanding Photoshop composition design, being able to put together images and understand what makes a good image, and then combining that with the technology. After a while, it's like people are seeking me out and they're always heading me up like, Hey, how did you do this? How did you do that? And then before I knew it, I had several publishers wanting me to write books. And of course, I decided to go off Rocky Nook because They're great people. They were just a good publisher to work with. I'm glad I did. I actually just wrote my second drone book just updated. That one's coming out next week officially. Yea.
 
 [00:07:55.320] - Jesus Ramirez
 Wow. What's the name of that book?
 
 [00:07:56.840] - Colin Smith
 It's The Photographer's Guide to Drones, second edition.
 
 [00:08:00.020] - Jesus Ramirez
 Nice. By the way, the link to the book, Colin's YouTube channel, and all other resources we mentioned in this episode are on the show notes. Make sure that you check them out. So, Colin, did you always want to be an author?
 
 [00:08:12.360] - Colin Smith
 Here's something I haven't really told it. I don't know if I've told anybody this, but when I was a kid, I fantasized about writing a book or writing books. Really? I remember when I was a little kid, I wrote the first chapter to I don't know how many books, but never really continued. I even started creating a guide on how to create trout flies, how to make fishing flies for trout. And I did that in Microsoft paint. So it just started it. It was a dream, but it wasn't something that I ever thought I would actually do. And then the opportunity happened and here I am, writing books.
 
 [00:08:49.560] - Jesus Ramirez
 Yeah. And let's talk about that because I think that a lot of people listening might have those dreams, might have these goals. And I know times are different, people's experiences are different. Things are different. But at least from your perspective, how does one get from having a dream to write a book? How does one go from having a dream to start a website, a YouTube channel, and then going forward to a place where you can call that a success, whatever success means to you?
 
 [00:09:18.780] - Colin Smith
 Well, it's a long road. It's a long process. I'm not going to simplify it and say, Hey, here's the three steps, and you'll have a book and you'll get selling book and a website in two months because you know what it takes to build stuff. I think what it is is you've got to define the path that you want to walk. We all have a journey, and the most tragic thing is to build something amazing and you're on top of a mountain and you look out and realize you built on the wrong mountain. So you've got to define what it is that you want to do, what you're passionate about. Be very careful what you do because you might just be successful. So you want to make sure it's something you really want to do because imagine, it's like, Hey, do I want to do this every day? I decided, Hey, this is what I want to do. I love it. I'm passionate about it. I just feel lucky that I'm able to work in Photoshop and Lightroom and just create, not just photography, but designs, images, drawing, illustration, all this stuff. What you've got to do is, first of all, you've got to become a subject matter expert.
 
 [00:10:25.460] - Colin Smith
 You've got to put in your time. You've got to know how to give from A to B. I'm a chess player, so a lot of things I do, I start with the end and then I work backwards in my mind, also calculating all the different possibilities. Because when I play chess, you're playing 10 moves ahead, but calculating all these possibilities of each move. So you have to be strategic in your planning of what you're doing. But the most important thing is just being consistent and just growing a little bit each day. You don't have to grow in leaps and bounds, but just try to get a little better at what you do each day.
 
 [00:10:55.990] - Jesus Ramirez
 Do you think that someone who's listening to this right now who may be a local designer, photographer, somebody who's not necessarily trying to become an industry leader, do you still think there's value for them in growing a social media following?
 
 [00:11:12.860] - Colin Smith
 Absolutely. That's the marketplace today. Back in the day, you wanted work, you'd go knocking on printers doors and working with printers and stuff because sometimes someone says, Hey, I want this, and they don't know how to design or whatever. So you literally had to go out and find work that way. Now everything's done. It's done on the mobile phone. It's done on the computer.
 
 [00:11:34.340] - Jesus Ramirez
 Generally speaking, how do you stay on top of things? There's a lot of new things. Tiktok is new. How do you determine, you know what, I should do TikTok, or maybe I shouldn't do TikTok, I should focus on Instagram. Or how do you determine where you're going to spend your time in? Because I'm in the belief that when you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. So how do you make that decision?
 
 [00:11:56.330] - Colin Smith
 I think I don't jump on every fad. That's so key for me. Me, I've got friends that do that. They jump on every fad and then they're all in and they're like, Hey, you should be doing this. And it's like, Oh, let's see. I let it prove itself a little bit first and I want to see if it's worth me investing my time in. Tiktok, definitely. I feel like even now I'm starting to get late for the game. I didn't go all in on Snapchat. A lso, was it a fit for what I'm doing? Because I'm doing training, so not every platform is going to be a fit for training and not every platform is going to be advantageous. I think you just look at that, obviously, YouTube to me, it makes sense. I'm creating videos. Why wouldn't I be on YouTube? Why wouldn't I be on TikTok? Why wouldn't I be on Instagram Reels? These are places that make sense. If you're a photographer, you definitely should be on these platforms or platforms where you're sharing photographs so people can see your images. Because if people don't see your images, they're not going to hire you.
 
 [00:12:59.420] - Colin Smith
 If they see your images and they're like, "Oh, I need someone." "Oh, I like that style." "That's the style I'm looking for." I know so many photographers that go work that way. If you.
 
 [00:13:09.160] - Jesus Ramirez
 Look at the demographics for TikTok, for example, it's people under 30. How do you create content for a younger generation? Do you think about that? What's the advice that you would give somebody joining a platform outside of their generation?
 
 [00:13:23.000] - Colin Smith
 If you want to be in business, it's really important that you have an audience that is growing into it. So I take the Coca-Cola model, you look at the age group or the demographic, the Coca-Cola targets. And that's for a reason because these people are growing into it. So if I can get people using Photoshop Cafe, or I can get people using my training at an earlier age as they grow up into professionals, that's going to be the brand that they're going to use. It's going to be the brand they trust. And so you have to look where are those young people younger eyeballs? Because I'm already reaching people my age. A lot of them have been with me for 30 years. They've read my books, they've been on Photoshop Cafe. I go everywhere. People are like, Oh, Photoshop Cafe. It's very learn Photoshop. I hear that. But what was starting to happen is I wasn't hearing that from the younger generation anymore. It was just people, older people doing really well in their careers, and I'm really happy that I helped them. But I'm like, Okay, so when they retire, who's my audience going to be?
 
 [00:14:27.100] - Colin Smith
 Then I realized, Wow, if I want to keep Photoshop Cafe relevant in this answer, the first question again, I have to be constantly reaching a younger audience. That was when I doubled down on YouTube. I was not taking YouTube very seriously. I had a lot of views, but not a lot of subscribers because I wasn't really trying. I didn't have a strategy. I wasn't have a plan. I wasn't consistent. I don't know. Was it like five years ago, something, six years ago, you and I were talking? That's when I realized, Hey, I really want to take YouTube seriously now because I realized that the audience that I'm you're looking for are on YouTube. So I started learning. I learned a lot from you. You and I have had a lot of conversations, and maybe I've helped you a little bit here and there too.
 
 [00:15:09.180] - Jesus Ramirez
 Definitely.
 
 [00:15:10.320] - Colin Smith
 And then just understanding it and saying, Okay, here's my plan. So I have a plan. I upload every Tuesday, and you know, the same as you, you upload every week come hell or high water. You and I have been at Adobe Max and conferences when literally there's an instructor party and we're not at the party because we're in the rooms creating content because we make sure we're not going to miss that upload because that's so important. As I've done that, I'm seeing the results. I'm starting to see when I'm going to conferences, I'm having younger people are now recognizing my brand, whereas before they weren't recognizing my brand. So it's starting to be a fruit. And now I don't think YouTube is going anywhere, but TikTok is the new YouTube in a way.
 
 [00:15:54.020] - Jesus Ramirez
 Yeah, I agree with that. I don't think YouTube is going anywhere just because a lot of younger people are on YouTube. But at least in my opinion, I don't see YouTube as a social platform, whereas I see TikTok as a social platform with video.
 
 [00:16:10.220] - Colin Smith
 Interesting.
 
 [00:16:11.100] - Jesus Ramirez
 And maybe this is just me, but I wouldn't necessarily create a video for my friends and family and put it on YouTube. I probably will create a video for my friends and family and put it on TikTok. So that's how I differentiate the two. Different kinds of content and they're both valuable in their own way, which is why I don't see YouTube going away and I can see TikTok staying around for a while.
 
 [00:16:31.100] - Colin Smith
 That's funny because I see it a little bit differently. As far as social content, I agree with that. I'm just going to make a funny video or a fun video. I see something, I'll share that on TikTok. I don't care. I wouldn't share that on YouTube because it's like, what you put on YouTube is so precious. You can't just put anything up there because you're going to kill yourself in the algorithm.
 
 [00:16:53.140] - Jesus Ramirez
 We're probably looking at it as YouTubers too. We really think about posting something on YouTube. I'm wondering if if you're not a YouTubers, maybe your perception of what a YouTube video should be is different. Maybe you will put up a silly video.
 
 [00:17:06.420] - Colin Smith
 I don't know. Yeah, I'm not putting a cat video on my channel ever. But on TikTok or Instagram, I would. Yeah, sure. But the other thing about YouTube is funny because I feel like, to me, YouTube is more of a community for me than TikTok. Because when I'm on YouTube, and maybe it's because I'm not into TikTok as much as you are yet, but I know the people, the comment section is really rich. You go more in depth and show a little bit more of yourself in YouTube. Whereas TikTok is quick, it's rapid fire, and you get a lot of views and stuff. But I don't know most of the people that are commenting.
 
 [00:17:45.560] - Jesus Ramirez
 Well, I don't disagree with you. I do think that you can, at this point in time at least, you can probably build a stronger community on YouTube. And I agree that I, with my videos at least, a lot of the people that comment, I almost feel like I know them because I see their comments. I've been seeing some people's comments for years. In that regard, I do understand what you're saying about creating communities with YouTube. I almost feel like TikTok is almost like a bar. You're just having fun conversations and maybe silly conversations, but not necessarily a lot of substance, at least not yet. And I know some people do create very valuable videos with a lot of substance, but as a whole, at least personally, I don't see the platform as that yet.
 
 [00:18:28.620] - Colin Smith
 I agree with that. You just swipe in, Oh yeah, that looks fun. Then you swipe and you're looking at things. You're basically feeding your ADD. But I'm definitely spending more time on a YouTube video than I would TikTok. There's channels that I subscribe to and I watch. Every video comes up, like Casey Neistat is one. Some music channels, there's some guitar players.
 
 [00:18:48.960] - Jesus Ramirez
 My channel, of course.
 
 [00:18:49.780] - Colin Smith
 Of course! Yeah. Yeah.
 
 [00:18:50.480] - Jesus Ramirez
 What I was going to ask you is, you do a lot. We mentioned the YouTube channel, the website, your client work. You're all over the place. Do you do everything yourself? Do you have assistance? Do the people work for you? How does that work?
 
 [00:19:07.560] - Colin Smith
 Well, that is an interesting question. I have some people that help out, like Bruce, obviously, Bruce Bicknell helps me. The live streams and different things like that. Then Matt helps me with the tech side. But if you enjoy a certain thing, once you start getting people and you start becoming an employer, you're spending less of your time doing that thing that you may be really good at and the thing you really enjoy, and now you're spending more time managing the people. But if you want to build something larger, that's what you have to do.
 
 [00:19:41.140] - Jesus Ramirez
 For the longest time, as you know, I was basically a solopreneur and in the last couple of years, I started shifting away from that simply because I wanted to do more. I had the same mentality you have where I thought, Well, if I do everything, then everything is on brand and everything works exactly the way that I want it to. But then that slows me down and that makes me say no to other things that I also want to do. So these days, I'm going the opposite route where I'm like, Okay, well, what do I need? Now I have two full time employees, Pauline, who is like my content producer, and she helps me a lot with social media, copywriting. And Isaiah, who's going to be editing this podcast and edits my YouTube videos.
 
 [00:20:26.780] - Colin Smith
 Yeah.
 
 [00:20:28.060] - Jesus Ramirez
 So I know that at one point you acquired a much larger company. How many employees did you have back then when you acquired the company?
 
 [00:20:34.600] - Colin Smith
 When I acquired the company, it was just me.
 
 [00:20:37.420] - Jesus Ramirez
 Wow. How many authors and employees and people that you take on?
 
 [00:20:40.860] - Colin Smith
 I literally got my first employee when I took over the company. And I think there must be some 30 authors. And so there was a lot of things that had stalled. There was a lot of things in the works, so many unfinished projects and stuff like that. And that was a lot. To take on when you're not ready for it. I look back and I'm glad for that experience, but there was just so much that I was really over my head, let's be honest, initially. But because I was so over my head with all these different things, juggling all these plates, and suddenly I'm not doing what I enjoy doing anymore, and now I'm doing something else that I don't have any education or training for. So then I'm reading books like crazy trying to learn. And it's hard to keep focused. You're trying to keep a culture going, you're trying to keep a brand going. And also attaching another larger brand to your brand, it really started to cloud the brand. And I realized I couldn't morph the other brand into being my brand because it wasn't. It was a different brand. And of course, I respect the pedigree.
 
 [00:21:52.410] - Colin Smith
 It came from Dean Collins, who was one of the greatest trainers, possibly the greatest photographic trainer ever. So it came from an incredible pedigree. So anyway, it was a lot of changes. It was a lot of growth and worked my way through.
 
 [00:22:08.680] - Jesus Ramirez
 How did you come up with the decision to let that go? I know you still own it, but in terms of, Okay, now I've taken over this company, 30 whatever plus authors, and you hired Mike, and now you're struggling, you're reading books, you're getting the company to move along. When do you decide, you know what, this is taking too much time and effort. What was that thought process like to basically say, you know what? I need to just let this go and create some breathing room.
 
 [00:22:33.620] - Colin Smith
 The decision was really as at a crossroads where it was like, either I'm going to run two companies, which is what I was trying to do, which was a mistake. Or take the best of both companies, merge them into one company. And essentially that's what I did. I took the best of software cinema and merged it into Photoshop Cafe. So we have the authors, we have the titles. But Photoshop Cafe was like, I felt like it was a younger brand. It was a better known brand, particularly online. It was called software cinema because they literally, before the Internet, used to go into movie theaters and show videos. People would go. It was like a conference, but instead of having speakers, they would be on the screen and they would go into movie theaters. It was a great idea, but that time had passed for that business model. Whereas Photoshop Cafe, as I say, it was born online. Of course, it was a brand I started and was passionate about. That's essentially what we did. A lot of the titles from software cinema are now they're available on Photoshop Cafe. Any business leader they come in, they make radical changes pretty quick, which is what I should have done as I took too long to make those changes.
 
 [00:23:49.300] - Colin Smith
 Eventually I did. Then I realized, Hey, we were doing trade shows. I was spending $30,000 a month on magazine ads. Here's a tip, by the way. If you want to get a cheap ad, ask for remnant pricing. I was in eight magazines, full page ads. I didn't do half page, didn't want quarter page. As far as I was concerned for my brand, I wanted full page or nothing. I had a full page ad in eight magazines every month. Usually cost a lot more.
 
 [00:24:13.440] - Jesus Ramirez
 What did you call it? You asked for what?
 
 [00:24:15.530] - Colin Smith
 Remnant. Remnant Pricing.
 
 [00:24:16.940] - Jesus Ramirez
 What does that mean?
 
 [00:24:18.460] - Colin Smith
 Unsold ad space. Spilling the beans on the magazine industry. When you see a lot of inhouse ads when they're advertising their own things, that's because they couldn't sell that advertising spot. So they're putting a house ad in there. So a remnant ad is an ad that you can buy when they're like, Okay, we're just going to have to fill this up. You've got an ad, we're going to let you have it cheap to fill the space. It's basically what you call remnant pricing. Got it. And things were starting to move away from the physical world back to digital. I said back to digital because that's where I started. So part of the reinvention as well was like, This era is over. And so we had a lot of customers that liked physical disks, but I had to make that decision of like, You know what? I love making physical disks. I love sending them to people, but it's just not profitable anymore. It's costing more to maintain the system, not just the money, but in time. That's when I realized, Hey, it's time to prune, time to reinvent. And that's when we went from more of a physical business to back onto more of a digital business.
 
 [00:25:21.840] - Colin Smith
 And then I found I don't need the people that I needed to do the fulfillment, inventory, manufacturing, shipping. I don't need those people anymore. So you're just going into a different phase in the business.
 
 [00:25:37.340] - Jesus Ramirez
 That is definitely true and such a great lesson. You have to change with the business. You have to change if your priorities change. Thank you so much for sharing that. Now, we're running out of time, but before I let you go, I want to ask you a few lightning-round questions. Some of these questions are short and easy, others will require some time, but no matter what, just tell me the first thing that comes to mind. We can even discuss some questions further. Does that sound good to you?
 
 [00:26:01.600] - Colin Smith
 Sounds good. Let's go.
 
 [00:26:02.960] - Jesus Ramirez
 All right. The first lightning round question is, tell us a shocking fact about yourself.
 
 [00:26:09.020] - Colin Smith
 I'm a musician. I play guitar. I'm self taught on the keyboards, self taught on the drums and bass. I'm not good on those. I'm pretty decent on the guitar and I fish. A lot of people don't know I like to fish.
 
 [00:26:20.740] - Jesus Ramirez
 I didn't know that. I didn't know you were a fisherman. The next question is, when was the last time you felt proud of yourself?
 
 [00:26:28.780] - Colin Smith
 In a way, every day in a certain sense because I allow myself to celebrate small achievements because if you don't celebrate small achievements, then you're not encouraging yourself to keep making those small achievements. And a big achievement is nothing more than a combination of a lot of small achievements.
 
 [00:26:47.080] - Jesus Ramirez
 Well said. And you know what? I recently started doing that. You know this, I don't celebrate anything. I just celebrated my birthday for the first time this year. I've never celebrated my birthday. I don't really celebrate myself. Even accomplishments and things like that. I don't know if you can tell, but in my background, actually, I have to my right here, I have my YouTube 1 million...
 
 [00:27:09.060] - Colin Smith
 Oh, your Gold Play Button.
 
 [00:27:10.490] - Jesus Ramirez
 Yeah.
 
 [00:27:11.400] - Colin Smith
 Because I remember I went to your house and it was sitting in the closet like, facing the wall.
 
 [00:27:15.330] - Jesus Ramirez
 It was under the couch. It came in, I opened it, looked at it, put it under the couch. Just because I just don't like to celebrate myself. So I just thought it was silly to have that thing out there. But you were one of the people who encouraged me to celebrate more and to, regarding the YouTube awards thing, to pull it out and have it in my background. You know this, Colin, I had a very difficult year starting with my health issues last year. So that started shifting my mindset on celebrating things, including small wins, because I would never celebrate small or big wins. So I think it's very good advice that you just gave to celebrate small wins. And a big win is just a collection of small wins. I think it was very well said.
 
 [00:27:58.760] - Colin Smith
 That's good. I'm glad you got that play button now because, man, you worked hard for that.
 
 [00:28:02.920] - Jesus Ramirez
 Yeah, there it is.
 
 [00:28:03.620] - Colin Smith
 I don't think people don't realize..
 
 [00:28:04.610] - Jesus Ramirez
 How difficult it is.
 
 [00:28:05.660] - Colin Smith
 You're like, oh, you got a million subscribers or two million subscribers. Oh, yeah, I'm just going to get a million subscribers. And it takes years and years and years of dedication and work. How many years did it take you to get to a million?
 
 [00:28:17.800] - Jesus Ramirez
 To get to a million, it took me about six or seven.
 
 [00:28:22.600] - Colin Smith
 And that's working full time.
 
 [00:28:24.420] - Jesus Ramirez
 Yeah. And then two million was almost two years.
 
 [00:28:27.900] - Colin Smith
 Yeah. So your million, you were doing that, like treating it like a full time job. It's not like it's not easy. I mean, you worked really hard to get that.
 
 [00:28:35.520] - Jesus Ramirez
 But it goes back to what you were talking about in the beginning, right? You got to find something that you're passionate about. Where are you going to build your castle? You don't want to build it in the wrong mountain. I was very I thought a lot about all of that. Where am I going to spend my time and effort? What am I going to say no to because I'm saying yes to this? So it was very thought out in that regard. Obviously, you never really know if something is going to be successful as you plan and hope for. In this case, thankfully it was. But to your point, I did do a lot of thinking and I did follow a passion that I didn't mind pursuing even when things were difficult or you didn't see results. The first two years, I felt like I had nothing. I probably didn't have a thousand followers in the first two years. So it definitely took a lot of time and effort. All right, the next question is, What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?
 
 [00:29:30.380] - Colin Smith
 Best piece of advice I've ever been given actually was a guy in New Zealand who's told me, Stop thinking about what if it doesn't work? I guess as part of the Kiwic culture is like, Oh, do this, but what if it doesn't work? And he's like, Change your thing, what if it does work? And that was actually probably what gave me the courage to start my... To start Photoshop Cafe.
 
 [00:29:53.660] - Jesus Ramirez
 Have you had an I made it moment?
 
 [00:29:57.120] - Colin Smith
 I think I've made it moment because I don't know if you've ever made it. But definitely when I got my first book, when I signed the contract, not even when I wrote the book, but literally, I was living here and I went on vacation to New Zealand, and they sent me the book of like, This is the sister book to the one you're going to write. And I read the book from cover to cover and I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is real. I'm going to become an author. That was amazing. Definitely.
 
 [00:30:31.080] - Jesus Ramirez
 What's your favorite city in the world besides the one you live in? And by the way, I didn't ask where you live because I know that, but I should have asked if I were a better podcast host because people listening don't know where you're at. So let us know where you're at and let us know what your favorite city in the world is besides that one.
 
 [00:30:45.840] - Colin Smith
 I'm in Irvine, California, part of the Greater Los Angeles area. And then as far as other cities, there's a couple of cities I really like, and one of them is Florence, Italy. Love Florence? Absolutely love Florence. Absolutely. love Florence. I could live there. And another one, which, don't shoot me, guys, I really like City of St area. Man, me too.
 
 [00:31:12.560] - Jesus Ramirez
 You know what? You named two of my top cities. 100 % agree with that. But I'm not Kiwi, so I can.
 
 [00:31:18.880] - Colin Smith
 Say that. I know it's terrible saying that.
 
 [00:31:23.240] - Jesus Ramirez
 What is the most difficult part about being a content creator photographer author being having your career, the most difficult part about it.
 
 [00:31:33.400] - Colin Smith
 People ask me, what do I do for a living?
 
 [00:31:37.160] - Jesus Ramirez
 I can definitely relate. What do you say? What do you tell people?
 
 [00:31:40.180] - Colin Smith
 I don't know. I always struggle. It's so funny. You'd think by now I'd have a script. It's just something I say. Actually, I do know what we are now. We're called slashies, by the way.
 
 [00:31:50.180] - Jesus Ramirez
 What does that mean?
 
 [00:31:52.240] - Colin Smith
 A "slashie" is someone that's a creator photographer slash designer slash video. That means you have a broken up. It's actually much more common than it used to be. Now it's a thing. But a lot of it depends who I'm talking to.
 
 [00:32:06.380] - Jesus Ramirez
 So you tailor it to the person that you're talking to?
 
 [00:32:09.030] - Colin Smith
 Absolutely. You do these things, you've earned it, so why not? Obviously, you're not going to say something irrelevant.
 
 [00:32:17.080] - Jesus Ramirez
 What would you like to be remembered for? What mark do you want to leave in the world?
 
 [00:32:21.640] - Colin Smith
 I want to be remembered for putting my marker on creativity and helping forward art because art and creativity are one of those beautiful things that unifies us. So many things in this world separate us. And art is one of those things that brings us together. So that's what I love about it. Yeah.
 
 [00:32:41.680] - Jesus Ramirez
 Today's creator was Colin Smith. Thank you so much, my friend.
 
 [00:32:45.280] - Colin Smith
 Thanks for having me. It's been my pleasure.