Embracing Change and Finding Your Passion w/ Aaron Nace from Phlearn

[00:00:00.000] - Aaron Nace
 There have been so many times when I've been done with my own creatorship in terms of the Photoshop photography, that business. There have been times where I'm like, Okay, I'm not interested in this anymore. It's not fulfilling me. That is really for me where a lot of the really good learning has come in. But to be like, Okay, well, how do I get back interested in this thing? Because it's my career, it's a passion that I once had. Why don't I feel passionate about it now? And what can I do to rekindle that passion?
 
 [00:00:35.680] - Jesus Ramirez
 Today's creator is Aaron Nace, a world-renowned photographer and Photoshop educator. Aaron is the founder of Phlearn, a YouTube channel with over 2.1 million subscribers, where he teaches Photoshop and Lightroom. In this episode, Aaron will share his journey to becoming one of the most successful Photoshop educators, the challenges he faces in maintaining his creative drive, and the tactics he uses to continually rekindle his passion for his craft. Hey, Aaron, my friend. How's it going?
 
 [00:01:00.020] - Aaron Nace
 Going really good.
 
 [00:01:00.950] - Jesus Ramirez
 Good to be here. Good to have you on, man. As I mentioned to you in the past, you're a very good friend. I'm a fan of your work, and I'm sure that we're going to have a fantastic conversation about your life as a professional creator.
 
 [00:01:12.270] - Aaron Nace
 Oh, yeah. Let's do it.
 
 [00:01:14.150] - Jesus Ramirez
 Or like the two people listening who don't know who you are, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, and where you're from?
 
 [00:01:21.470] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, sure. My background is in photography as well as design. I started with conceptual photos and was doing a lot of Photoshop for my own personal projects. There was a lot of interest around the compositing work and the retouching work that I was doing. I started teaching, it's been about 12 years ago, on YouTube, how to do interesting Photoshop techniques. That just took off and really became the focus of my career. I founded a company called Phlearn. It's like "photo learn" in one word. We're on YouTube. We have a website with subscription where you can get really advanced professional level courses. Then we have hundreds of videos for free on YouTube as well. That's been basically my entire adult professional career. I had a bunch of jobs before that, and I've had many side projects and side businesses and many passions along the way. But I haven't had a real job in maybe 13 years. I miss it sometimes, actually. Sometimes I'm like, dang, I wonder what it would be like to have a job because working for yourself, as you know, is so rewarding and fantastic in so many ways. But it also comes with its own unique challenges.
 
 [00:02:40.610] - Aaron Nace
 One of those challenges is you're always in charge of making every decision. No one's there to tell you what to do or what time to wake up or give you a schedule. And a lot of the time for me, that's fantastic. But some of the time I'm like, man, I just want someone to tell me what to do today because I don't feel like going to work. I don't feel like doing anything. Having been working for myself as a creator for so long, it's so wonderful in so many ways. And it is a thing where at this point, I'm like, if I wanted to get a job, I don't even know that I could anymore. It's a little bit of a double edged sword. I don't even...
 
 [00:03:26.860] - Jesus Ramirez
 You could probably with your skills, but where you're saying that mentality of working at a place, that probably is what you wouldn't be able to handle.
 
 [00:03:34.280] - Aaron Nace
 I think so. I feel the same way. It has to be the right fit. And even with my skills, I feel like I've developed a very bespoke specific skill set that fits my life perfectly for my own creative endeavors. But to be hired as a job, I do feel like I would have to go to school again or something to actually be qualified for a professional position. Not that I am on the hunt or anything like that currently, but it's something that I have thought about from time to time. Like, man, I want to phone it in right now. I just want a job for like six months.
 
 [00:04:13.040] - Jesus Ramirez
 Well, if you need to, man, send an application. I think I can hire you. Resume an application, please.
 
 [00:04:19.730] - Aaron Nace
 There we go. We'll send it in.
 
 [00:04:22.540] - Jesus Ramirez
 Sounds good. It's fantastic to have that freedom of where you are now. I'm using that word freedom very loosely. I know that you're busy and you do all sorts of things, but you do get to live where you want to live and work when you want to work for the most part. But I want to push it further back. How did you even consider becoming a professional creative? How did you pick up a camera? Take us back to those moments of when you started developing this passion for creativity and photography and compositing and specific.
 
 [00:04:52.440] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, for sure. I've always been into the visual arts. I grew up drawing and painting, and that transitioned into my college university education, which was in product design or industrial design. I came into photography relatively late. It was after college, and I was traveling quite a bit and taking a lot of photos during my travels. I really, really enjoyed it. I got home from traveling through South America. I was there for almost a year. When I got home, I was really not wanting to work in the career that I studied in college. I was studied as an industrial designer, and I was just feeling like I wanted to carve my own path. I had been shooting a lot of photography, and my friends and family were like, Why don't you just try to make it as a photographer? It's something you're passionate about and you can do it for yourself. So I jumped head in to photography. And then along the way from university and even well before college, I was using Photoshop. That was always an interest of mine. And so when I got into photography, I thought, Okay, well, how do I make my photos a little bit more interesting?
 
 [00:06:12.580] - Aaron Nace
 They would come out technically well, properly exposed and focused and all that. But for me, it was like, Okay, these are still a little bit boring to look at for my own self. I wouldn't say that about anyone else's work, but for my own work and for my own taste, I was like, Okay, I want this to be more interesting. If I'm going to try to be a professional photographer, I need to have images that are going to stand out. I need something that other people aren't really doing. So that's when I reached back into my Photoshop roots and started my compositing work. That really, for me, was such a joy because I was producing images that I liked and I felt were unique and doing something that other people weren't really doing, especially at that time. It was just a lot of fun. That filled the creative part of myself. Then at that time, my goal was still to work as a career photographer.
 
 [00:07:13.810] - Jesus Ramirez
 What does that mean? What photographer that you want to be?
 
 [00:07:16.600] - Aaron Nace
 I wanted to be a conceptual brand photographer, basically. Like shooting for either individuals actors, things like that, doing conceptual portrait photography for those type of clients, or I wanted to work with other brands, just lifestyle brands, fashion brands, things like that, but still doing the highly conceptual work. So that was really my goal for the first few years. And I had no plans of ever teaching postproduction. That was never a part of a long term vision of mine. And I still do shoot. I still built my photography career as I was building my Photoshop education channel. But in terms of what just took over was the education side of things, and it was going really well. So at a certain point, I made the decision, why don't I just double down on this, put all of my focus into this education company and see where it can go?
 
 [00:08:28.230] - Jesus Ramirez
 I don't know if you remember this, but you and I met in person briefly in LA at probably Adobe Max 2018, or so, give or take a year. And then I met you again. And I think this is when we started becoming friends in San Francisco. You were doing something for Adobe, and you and I hung out for a little bit. And this is where the story is going. I know for sure that you still shoot and that you're still a photographer because you invited me to go at some random place at like five in the morning the next day to go shoot. And I was like, Nope, I'm not doing that. I'm not a photographer, clearly. But I know that you're out, if I'm not mistaking, with a mutual friend of ours, Paco, I think, you went out and shot some things in San Francisco or around that area. But it's incredible, man, that you went from, I want to have this career, to doing something that's related but still different, and then just becoming extremely successful at it. I remember seeing your stuff back in 2012 or so when you had a co-host.
 
 [00:09:27.090] - Jesus Ramirez
 It was you and another lady at the time. So I've known about you for a really long time. And it's interesting now, we text all the time, we're friends. And one of the reasons I wanted to have you in the show is because I know much about you now, but I don't know much of you from the beginning. So it was interesting to see how you got into where you are today. You mentioned that you had encouragement from friends and family to become.
 
 [00:09:52.710] - Aaron Nace
 A photographer. Yeah, that was huge.
 
 [00:09:54.710] - Jesus Ramirez
 Yeah, it's huge, man, because I've interviewed several people now for this podcast, and I think you're the only one who specifically mentioned without me asking. Oh, yeah, my close circle encouraged me. Did you also have any mentors or anybody else that you learned the tricks of the trade, anybody that you latched on to, somebody that took you under the wing?
 
 [00:10:13.880] - Aaron Nace
 There were a few people making online videos at the time, teaching Photoshop and photography, and there was an active community on flicker. Com. So I think a lot of my community came online at the time. I didn't have a lot of in person mentorship or things like that. But I had a lot of great friends who were totally down to go shoot random crap in the forest at two in the morning. Clearly not me. So that helped a lot. We'll do something together.
 
 [00:10:43.180] - Jesus Ramirez
 As long as it's past 7 AM, I'm there with you.
 
 [00:10:46.990] - Aaron Nace
 I'm not usually a 5 AM type of person, but when the shoot calls for it. But just having really supportive friends and doing stuff that was really genuinely fun for me. I think that's been really the thing that's kept me back, coming back year after year after year. Because as you know, being a full time creator, we're just humans and we have good days and bad days. We have good months and bad months. And sometimes we really love our craft and want to make something of it and want to put ourselves into it. And sometimes it's just speaking for myself, I have trouble getting out of bed some days. And I'm not going to go set the world on fire with my creativity when I'm not feeling that great myself. My journey as a creative has been learning how to fall in love with my craft over and over and over and over again. That is something that I've only learned with many years of doing the same thing. I'm, as a person, I get very excited about projects and then I do them and then I'm totally done and ready to move on to something else.
 
 [00:12:07.600] - Aaron Nace
 So for me, sticking with something like photography or Photoshop or even just my own business, to be honest, it has been difficult for me personally because I am the type of person who's like, I want to play the flute one week and then the next week I want to pick up surfing. That's just who I am as a person. So for me, there have been so many times when I've been done with my own creatorship in terms of the Photoshop photography, that business. There have been times where I'm like, Okay, I'm not interested in this anymore. It's not fulfilling me. That is really for me where a lot of the really good learning has come in. But to be like, Okay, well, how do I get back interested in this thing? Because it's my career, it's a passion that I once had. Why don't I feel passionate about it now? And what can I do to rekindle that passion? So that process has come into play many, many times over the years.
 
 [00:13:12.410] - Jesus Ramirez
 How did you fall back in love with it?
 
 [00:13:15.370] - Aaron Nace
 Well, it always comes in a slightly different way. The first part of the process is finding out what is the reason why I don't love it currently. Okay, why don't I love it right now? What happened? Did something happen? Did I change? What was the reason why I fell out in love with something? And then if I could bring my passion back online, what would do it? And it's always a different thing. Sometimes it's like, Well, I want to be more connected with other creatives in my industry, so I'll reach out to other creatives and start working, doing a lot more collaboration and really getting that going again. More recently, it's been creating conceptual high-end compositing work that gets my creative juices flowing, something that's artistically rewarding for me as well. So the thing that pulls me back into it is always different, but there's always a process of, Okay, well, let's dig deep and find something that I still love, and how can I integrate that with my business? Again, sometimes it just slows, and all I want to do is make Photoshop tutorials and take photos. And sometimes that's the last thing I want to do.
 
 [00:14:36.030] - Aaron Nace
 For me, it's always like, how do I get back to that place of wanting to do it again? And that's just like it's internal. It has to come from within. For sure. And in.
 
 [00:14:49.150] - Jesus Ramirez
 Order for you to have that clarity, I would assume, and I think this is true for me, mental health is very important. And it's something that you and I have spoke about in the past. And one of the questions I wanted to ask you is, people like you, I'm pretty sure, because it happens to me, we have more external input than the average person. We get more notifications, probably. We definitely get hundreds, if not thousands of comments on our videos. And some of that feedback can be negative feedback. How do you stay mentally healthy when you're getting so much feedback in order to continue creating? Is there anything specifically that you do?
 
 [00:15:32.010] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, I think for me, I actually try to limit my feedback as much as possible. But no matter how long you've been doing this thing, a negative comment, if there's truth in it, can just really be like an arrow in the heart. If there's no truth in it, it doesn't hurt at all. If it's just like, Screw you, I didn't like your video, then it's like, Okay, that's not going to stick with me. But if it's something and you're like, Oh, you're totally right. This did suck. And I did phone it in.
 
 [00:16:07.090] - Jesus Ramirez
 No, it's funny that you feel that because the way that it only bothers me if it's an attack. So if you were to come in on one of my videos or some artwork that I had done, you said, Hey, man, the masking or whatever is a little off. I'll be like, Oh, damn it, you're right. Yes, I should have done better. So it wouldn't really ruin my day and I wouldn't be so upset. But if your comment was that and then an attack like, You suck, and this and that, it's something unrelated to the critique, then that's when it bothers me. Or if there's no critique and it's just an attack, that's when it bothers me.
 
 [00:16:41.450] - Aaron Nace
 I don't get bothered by blatant attacks that much because I know people have good days and bad days, and the internet is a place where strangers can lash out at other strangers. But if a person is like, Hey, I've been following you for a bunch of years. Your work used to be good, but now it looks like you don't care anymore, and it's obvious in your videos. And I can't watch you anymore because I was excited initially, but now it seems like you're really phoning it in and I don't enjoy the content that you make anymore, and it seems like you don't enjoy it anymore also, so maybe you should think about stopping. That thing that sticks with you. I've gotten to several points through my career when the input was just too much, honestly, and I've taken steps to reduce it. So I used to be very active on Twitter and Instagram and social media and things like that. And I'm not that active with that thing anymore. And I know that it would be better for my business if I was more active, but I just don't want to do it. That's always a balance for me personally is.
 
 [00:18:09.390] - Jesus Ramirez
 The.
 
 [00:18:10.860] - Aaron Nace
 Difference of what's good for the business versus what I actually want to do. And sometimes I just simply don't want to do something and my business might suffer as a result. The real solution that I found for that is if there's something that I really don't want to do but the business needs it, I hire someone else to do it.
 
 [00:18:30.240] - Jesus Ramirez
 And that's where I was going to go. So I've had the same exact thought process where I used to be the person who would take a picture, post it in a line when Facebook was a thing. I used to check in everywhere. I was doing all this stuff. And then eventually for many reasons, I just got tired of it. And I'm trying to get back into it for my personal stuff. I stopped taking photos. I don't take photos of anything now. For the last year, I've been changing that. And I'm pushing myself to take more photos just to create memories of nice places I go with my girlfriend or whatever. But it just became too much. And I did exactly what you just said because I know that keeping a social presence is important for people who have businesses like ours. So I actually hired a social media manager. So she's been with me for a year now. And it's so funny because she even handles my LinkedIn and these things. And people message me and then she'll message me and says, Hey, by the way, this person looks like they know you. Do you know them?
 
 [00:19:28.290] - Jesus Ramirez
 I'm like, Oh, yeah, that's my friend. So let me get to them. Because people don't know that I do that. So then if somebody just out on LinkedIn, like in a private message and it sounds like they know me, she'll like, let me know. But like, most of I don't even know. And I've actually gotten comments from friends that say things like, hey, I reached out to you on Twitter, you never message back. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I haven't been on Twitter for years. And the current situation, I'll probably never be back on it. But I totally understand having to distance yourself from that input so that you just can have a clear mind and do what you want to do. And it's not necessarily being lazy, it's just focusing on creating good content for people, if that's what we're doing, or for a client or whatever.
 
 [00:20:08.470] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, I think so. We're living in a very connected world, more so than ever. And I don't know that our brains have really caught up with it yet. I see people online living simple lives, building a cabin in the woods, and they just wake up and like, What do I have to do today? Like, hammer some boards together and pick some berries and make lunch. I find myself craving that. I'm like, Wow, they have so few inputs, so little external distraction. They can just live a simple life and live at peace.
 
 [00:20:50.710] - Jesus Ramirez
 But you know what's funny about you just said? These people are putting it online, so therefore they're also getting the input. So isn't that just like a package? I'm just packaging up this idea of a simple life. But in reality, here I am with a camera, light kit, maybe a teleprompter. Who knows, right?
 
 [00:21:09.490] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, you got a good point there. It's so cool that we can make a living online. It's amazing. My career is to the benefit of the current state technology.
 
 [00:21:20.850] - Jesus Ramirez
 For sure. Here's a mental exercise. Let's imagine that we could travel to an alternate universe where everything is the same but nobody knows who you are. So you don't have any of your contacts, no money, but you wanted to start Flurn again. How would you have got about it today with your knowledge?
 
 [00:21:36.960] - Aaron Nace
 That's a great question, man. Boy. Put you in.
 
 [00:21:41.580] - Jesus Ramirez
 The spot there.
 
 [00:21:42.170] - Aaron Nace
 My man. Yeah, that's such a good question because if I had no money, no resources, my initial But you have your knowledge. But I have my knowledge. I don't know if I would do the same thing again, to be honest. I know it's weird to say, but I don't think that I would go down the same road. I think I would probably do something totally different.
 
 [00:22:09.450] - Jesus Ramirez
 Do you have any idea what that would be?
 
 [00:22:11.560] - Aaron Nace
 I have no idea what that would be. I don't know. Maybe they got a hover surfing or something like that in this new universe. But the company that I built and my own career and my own creative endeavors were very much based on a repeating pattern of events that happened in my life. And it came to pass where I was graduated from college. I decided that I wanted to go on my own career and I had a real passion for photography. And those things were my deep, deep passions. And I was able to turn that into a career at the time. I don't think if I started today, I would build the same career. I think I would probably do something based on my current passions. As I mentioned before, my passions change a lot, and I still have passion for Photoshop and photography, but I have a lot of other passions in my life as well.
 
 [00:23:22.760] - Jesus Ramirez
 What are some of your passions right now?
 
 [00:23:25.950] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, I love to travel. I love the outdoors. I was daydreaming the other day about being a park ranger. I love being in natural, out in nature, just out in the middle of nature. So would I be as successful financially or whatever? Maybe not. But a huge part of the reason why I was successful at all with my photography, Photoshop stuff was because I really loved it. That carried me through the dark days when there was no money. I mean, for years and years and years, there was very little money coming in. I didn't care because I wasn't doing it for the money. I was just doing it because I loved it. And there always comes a day when things aren't going your way and you're like, am I just going to stop this? Why am I even doing this? What's going to keep you going? And for me, if the passion isn't there, it's really difficult for me to convince myself to keep doing something if I just don't want to do it. And money has never been adequate. Well, you make good money, so keep doing it. That's just never been...
 
 [00:24:38.070] - Jesus Ramirez
 100 % agree.
 
 [00:24:38.710] - Aaron Nace
 Everyone in the world is making money in a totally different way. And there are people who make plenty of money who are not very happy with their lives, and there are people who don't make as much who get a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment out of their lives. So for me, money has never been anything that keeps me going. The money thing feels more like a chain, like a ball and chain. But truly enjoying something feels like a fountain. You know what I mean? And I think a ball and chain is only going to h. A fountain feels a lot better. Just like, Oh, I want to do this stuff, rather than like, Oh God, I have to keep doing this because I'm stupid money.
 
 [00:25:25.100] - Jesus Ramirez
 But I've always said that to people, man. I probably went two plus years without anybody watching my YouTube channel. I was not producing as much content as I am now, but I was working a full time job, coming home, creating content afterwards, seven to midnight, one morning, whatever it was. And yeah, sure, I only made like 10 videos in one year or whatever, but it was as much as I could do. But I did it for two years without really making any money. And year three ish is when it started making some. And even to this day, like this podcast, I spent so much money on it. Some of the equipment that you see on screen, some of the equipment you don't see on screen, some of the services where this episode is being recorded. I spent so much money, I don't have a single sponsor. I don't know if how anything about monetizing it, but I wanted to do it. So I'm doing it. So you're doing it. And you can make the claim, oh, Jesus sits in a privileged position where he has some disposable income. Well, yeah, but that wasn't always the case, especially with the YouTube channel.
 
 [00:26:24.970] - Jesus Ramirez
 And I did it anyway. I always tell people I was very fortunate that after two or three years, my YouTube channel started growing. And so did my mailing list. So I started paying hundreds of dollars to mail chimp relatively quickly, two or three years into it. And I know people who wouldn't want to pay the $20 monthly fee for that. And it's not that I grew up with no money, so I know what it feels like to not have any money and be worried about money. But at the same time, making money was never the goal. So I don't mind spending money to do what I want. I just happen to be in a position where, thankfully, things have gone the right way and I can afford that luxury. I don't have many luxury, but that is a luxury that I.
 
 [00:27:09.720] - Aaron Nace
 Afford myself. Yeah, definitely. And it's worth it. If it's your passion and it brings you joy and gives you purpose and it's like something you're excited to wake up and do with your day. It's very much worth it, I think.
 
 [00:27:24.350] - Jesus Ramirez
 For sure. I wanted to move into a new topic, which is I don't know if you're still doing it as heavily as you were last time I saw you in person, but you were doing a lot of blender. And you even showed me some really cool animations, including one of a restaurant that you eventually ended up building in real life, but the concept started in blender. So the question that I have for you is learning a complex application like Blender, has that in any way helped your teaching? Have you seen any training from Blender instructors that you were like, Oh, my God, that's such a great idea. I'm going to implement that on Flerd?
 
 [00:28:02.660] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, definitely. I think every bit of knowledge you absorb winds up influencing future decisions and behavior. Not so much like, Oh, I should say this at the intro or out through or whatever. It's more like, Okay, what is their essence? Why do I enjoy learning from them? And most of the time for me, it's personality based. I click with their personality and I enjoy watching them. I have fun.
 
 [00:28:31.280] - Jesus Ramirez
 Are there any blender instructors that you really enjoy?
 
 [00:28:34.410] - Aaron Nace
 Probably the most popular guy is Blender guru.
 
 [00:28:38.160] - Jesus Ramirez
 Yeah, Andrew Price.
 
 [00:28:39.770] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, he's really good. And he's just like fun and chill and seems like a normal guy. like it. I feel like I could go get lunch with him and we would have a good time.
 
 [00:28:50.420] - Jesus Ramirez
 It's funny that you say that, man, because I've seen his videos and a lot of the times I'm like, Oh, man, I wish I had his personality. He just seems like such a cool guy.
 
 [00:28:58.800] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah. I think we all have our own good personalities. I think for me, it's like, how much of it do I let shine in videos? How much do I bring that? It's just like, okay, good actors. For me, a good actor is someone who can express their full emotional range that they experience in their regular life. A lot of that has to do with being comfortable with your emotional range and being comfortable expressing it around other people. If you feel like maybe you're a little bit reserved and you don't want to express your inner thoughts or feelings and things like that in your own personal life, then you're probably not going to do that in videos. And then they're just not going to be as interesting to watch. It's hard to connect with a person who's just reading a script. But if you can feel like, Oh, I'm actually like... I'm engaging with someone who's digging deep and bringing the real self to this conversation, then it's like, Oh, cool. We get to actually bond about something. Or you might find insight into your own self with them talking about their thoughts or feelings or emotions or even just humor and whatnot.
 
 [00:30:13.560] - Aaron Nace
 But I think being comfortable with yourself is huge, and that allows you to express yourself in a more full manner to friends, family, and to greater extent, maybe the internet, too. I feel like a lot of the time when people are first getting on camera, like their early days of making YouTube videos or whatever, it's pretty uncomfortable. I don't know many people who aren't uncomfortable at first. And a lot of my early videos, I'm like putting on a big show, like my voice is different, and I'm like, Hi, welcome to Flaherty. It's like this whole big production. And that can be fun. But that's not me. That's not actually my personality. That's a version that I make for the camera. And I still do that to a degree. I think it's very hard to not do that. But I do find that I connect with people when it doesn't seem like they're putting on a show for the camera. If I feel like this is who they really are in person, if I met them on the street tomorrow, they'd be acting the exact same way, then I'm like, Okay, cool. I can connect with you.
 
 [00:31:32.350] - Aaron Nace
 I might not vibe with you. We might not have the same energy, but I can at least feel a genuine type of...
 
 [00:31:39.770] - Jesus Ramirez
 They're authentic.
 
 [00:31:40.660] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, exactly.
 
 [00:31:41.840] - Jesus Ramirez
 I try to put on, I don't want to say put on a show, but I try to enunce it better. From this podcast, people are going to be like, Oh, my God. Did Jesus have a stroke? Yes, I did. But I've spoke like that prior to that. I talk fast, I mumble words, I'll cut words in half. I don't finish my sentences. Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. So when I'm recording videos after, I have to remember that people are following along. I'm trying to be concise. I'm trying to be precise. So I try to enunceate better. A trick I learned from Dick McKelan, who is a fantastic Photoshop instructor, is smile when you talk and then tuck with your teeth. You smile a lot and then it helps you enunceate better. So I try to enunceate things. Unlike you, I don't have a camera on me all the time, so I don't look silly when I'm doing that. I don't know how you're going to do it because I know you keep the camera on you throughout the tutorial, so I don't do that so I can get away with it. But you definitely develop a voice, a persona that may not necessarily be so different from who you are, but it needs to be there in order so that the product is good.
 
 [00:32:49.250] - Jesus Ramirez
 And it's funny because sometimes after maybe this recording or whatever, I'll walk out and immediately I'll talk to my girlfriend and she'll say things like, You still have your presenter voice on. I'm like, Oh, sorry. Yeah, I get.
 
 [00:32:59.940] - Aaron Nace
 The same thing. And I think it's impossible. Not impossible, it's very difficult. When you put a camera on someone, there's more pressure. A conversation with someone that's not recorded is like, Well, they can't go back and watch this 10 years from now and be like, When you get a camera on you, a lot of people start thinking about every word. And like, Did I say that well enough? Second guessing or like, If they stutter... They don't want to.
 
 [00:33:29.430] - Jesus Ramirez
 Get canceled.
 
 [00:33:30.900] - Aaron Nace
 Well, that's a problem with your own point of view on the world. I don't really worry so much about being canceled because I.
 
 [00:33:40.300] - Jesus Ramirez
 Work.
 
 [00:33:41.490] - Aaron Nace
 On my own mind, so I don't think the type of shit that would lead to that thing. Hopefully, I cross my fingers on that and I try to surround myself with like...
 
 [00:33:51.540] - Jesus Ramirez
 After this podcast, you'll get canceled. Let's hope not.
 
 [00:33:56.400] - Jesus Ramirez
 We're running out of time. I like to end the show by asking a series of lightning round questions. Let's do it. These answers can be as simple as a yes. No, probably not. You have to say more than one word, but they can be as simple as you want. As long as you want, you can say skip. We can go into a story about it. Totally up to you. We'll see what happens. Cool. Let's do it.
 
 [00:34:16.590] - Aaron Nace
 All right, man.
 
 [00:34:17.450] - Jesus Ramirez
 Tell us a shocking fact about yourself. A shocking fact.
 
 [00:34:20.380] - Aaron Nace
 Well, I moved to Mexico almost two years ago. So I.
 
 [00:34:24.750] - Jesus Ramirez
 Had.
 
 [00:34:26.710] - Aaron Nace
 A studio and full house and a life and everything like that in Chicago that I had built for 10 years. And I sold everything. So basically drove down two cars from Chicago to Mexico and started That's insane. Yeah. So the only things that I own in the world were the things that I could fit in two vehicles. That's very.
 
 [00:34:50.330] - Jesus Ramirez
 Shocking indeed.
 
 [00:34:51.080] - Aaron Nace
 In terms of physical possessions, I pretty much started over completely at about two years ago. So I went down in terms of square footage that I was occupying between my business and my home, I went down to about 10 %. That's insane.
 
 [00:35:09.970] - Jesus Ramirez
 I reduced.
 
 [00:35:10.430] - Aaron Nace
 My input by about 90 %. Going through the process of selling giving away basically almost all my possessions was such an emotional journey. I learned so much from that. I didn't realize how emotionally attached I was to my stuff, and getting rid of it all meant that I had to deal with those emotions and move on. The result is that now I feel very much less attached to physical belongings in general. If I had to pick up and move and leave everything I own behind, I'd be okay with it because I just did it. I don't know.
 
 [00:35:47.250] - Jesus Ramirez
 How you feel, but you seem like a much calmer person, more relaxed. Cool.
 
 [00:35:51.480] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah. I mean, I live in Puerto Vallearta, Mexico, so it's tropical, palm trees, and ocean breeze every day in my life. So that may or may not have...
 
 [00:36:01.460] - Jesus Ramirez
 Hanging out at the beach with margaritas, I'm sure. Yeah, that may.
 
 [00:36:04.000] - Aaron Nace
 Have something to do with it.
 
 [00:36:05.330] - Jesus Ramirez
 Actually, a shocking fact about you that I'm sure a lot of people don't know, your Spanish is excellent. We've had plenty of conversations in Spanish, and it's so weird just to talk to you in Spanish.
 
 [00:36:16.420] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, it's coming along. It's a really cool opportunity. I think that's in terms of my mental development, that's been a real gift to dive in to learning Spanish. And I think learning anything to a good degree is good for your brain. But Spanish in particular is so wonderful because so many people speak Spanish. I mean, you speak Spanish, and if you went to just about any country in Central and South America, you'd just drop in and be able to communicate with millions and millions and millions of people. And that's been a real gift and I've really enjoyed it. So I've still got a lot to go. Learning language is like a lifetime thing, but I am enjoying it.
 
 [00:36:58.320] - Jesus Ramirez
 Nice. The next question is, when was the last time you felt proud of yourself? When was.
 
 [00:37:03.910] - Aaron Nace
 The last time I felt proud of myself? I guess today I woke up and went on a nice walk with one of my dogs. Yesterday I went through a walk in nature, which for me, I always come back to nature. I'm really big. It's always very centering for me. So if I get too caught up in the online world and the digital world or just even staying indoors. As soon as I spend a good amount of time in nature, I feel much better about myself, and then I feel proud of myself for having gone and done it. It's like, Okay, cool. I had the thought that maybe I should go out for a walk today and spend time in nature. And then I actually do it. And then I'm like, Okay, I'm proud of myself. I'm taking care of myself. And now I can come back and focus on my things that I got to get done. Good question.
 
 [00:38:02.170] - Jesus Ramirez
 You're someone who is, quote unquote, known by a lot of people. A lot of people feel like they know you. Is there something that people often get wrong about you? Any misconceptions about Aaron when they finally get to meet you?
 
 [00:38:17.120] - Aaron Nace
 I'm pretty quiet as a person.
 
 [00:38:20.520] - Jesus Ramirez
 I would have guessed that about you.
 
 [00:38:23.220] - Aaron Nace
 I would say some people because when they watch me in the videos, I'm talking all the entire time. But I would say in my interactions with people, I'm more of a listener. I'm the type of person at a party who you might not remember is there.
 
 [00:38:38.720] - Jesus Ramirez
 Same. I've told people that when I was in school, I could go an entire day without saying a word. It often happened. I just wouldn't say a word. I don't need to talk. I like to listen much like you, but definitely don't like to talk. But unfortunately, in a podcast, we both have to talk, so here we are. It wouldn't be much fun if we both stayed quiet for two hours. The next one is, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received, whether it's personal or in business? I think.
 
 [00:39:06.670] - Aaron Nace
 In terms of business, my dad just told me I should probably work for other people. He was like, I don't think you would make it really. You're not really suited for having a job. You should go into business for yourself. I think he was right about that.
 
 [00:39:23.190] - Jesus Ramirez
 That's very good advice in your case. What's the most difficult part about doing what you do as a creator?
 
 [00:39:30.580] - Aaron Nace
 I think like we were talking about earlier, consistently finding ways to keep enjoying doing it year after year. And as we change as people, our interests change as well. And everyone, like lead, lives their own lives in their own spectrum and is on their own journey. Me personally, I constantly change my interests. So the most difficult part is as I change as a person, how do I still stay engaged with something that I fell in love with over a decade ago? It's always possible. It sometimes just requires going into your mind and rewiring some things. But I would say that that's one of the big challenges that I face. Have you had.
 
 [00:40:22.500] - Jesus Ramirez
 An I made it moment?
 
 [00:40:24.580] - Aaron Nace
 No, I wouldn't say that. No, I don't think so. I don't even feel that now. I don't necessarily feel like I've, quote unquote, made it. I don't know if it I'll ever feel that, to be honest. Really good. Have you?
 
 [00:40:42.220] - Jesus Ramirez
 Yes and no. My I made it moments are not like, Oh, my name is in some conference, or, Oh, I got invited to speak at like in Sydney, Australia. Those things are super cool, but I don't consider those I made it moments. My I made it moments are like, I've gotten text messages from people that I used to look up to when I was younger and learning Photoshop and all this stuff. One of my Photoshop heroes growing up was Bert Monroy, who co wrote the very first book of Photoshop in the 90s. He's Photoshop user number 6. He creates incredible artwork in Photoshop. He's still around today and still creating artwork. He and I became friends. I remember one of my I made it moments was I got a text message from Bert saying, Hey, are you around? I have a Photoshop question. To me, it was like, Oh, my God. Bert has a Photoshop question. He needs my help. That to me was like a I made it moment. All that other stuff, it's nice to see your name on places or websites and nice messages that people send. But as nice as that is, it doesn't feel as good as being in a position where your peers look up to you.
 
 [00:41:54.530] - Jesus Ramirez
 I think that to me is what feels like an I made it moment. That's super cool.
 
 [00:41:59.160] - Aaron Nace
 I love it. And the.
 
 [00:42:01.790] - Jesus Ramirez
 Last question I have for you today, Aaron, is what would you like to be remembered for? What mark do you want to leave in the world, if any? That's a good question.
 
 [00:42:10.650] - Aaron Nace
 What would I like to be remembered for? Probably just like treating other people well and myself. I think that more than anything else. And it's not really career oriented. It's more just like, were people better in any way after having interacted with me, or did I mess them up?
 
 [00:42:48.400] - Jesus Ramirez
 I'm in therapy because of Aaron.
 
 [00:42:51.090] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, I would think that's about it.
 
 [00:42:55.940] - Jesus Ramirez
 Actually, light, I have one more question for you. Where can people find you?
 
 [00:43:00.600] - Aaron Nace
 Oh, good question. Easiest places on YouTube. My channel is called Flaurn. It's like photo learn, P H, L, E, A, R, N. I remember when I.
 
 [00:43:08.940] - Jesus Ramirez
 First saw that name, I was like, Oh, my God. That guy took a... I was so jealous. I was like... And I came up with a name that has three words, but it's a different conversation. Such a good name. And you know what I remember seeing Flaurn all the time? He used to wear a black T shirt and it had Flaurn on the chest. And I think you did a creative live or something. And I was like, oh, my God. I'm so jealous of that guy. He's got such a good name.
 
 [00:43:33.560] - Aaron Nace
 Yeah, it's funny. Over the years, when I first was mulling around ideas, a close person at the time was like, That is the worst name in the world. No one's going to remember that. It's so silly. It doesn't make any sense. It's been a double edged sword because on one end it is like a unique, made up word. So sometimes it can actually be difficult. I all talk with companies all the time and we love pH learn. It's one of those things. But I think once it gets stuck in your brain, it's hard to get it out.
 
 [00:44:06.280] - Jesus Ramirez
 Yeah, I get, oh, we love photo learning channel, we love Photoshop tutorial channel. I get everything, so I totally get it. Oh, man. Today's creator is Aaron Nace. Aaron, thank you so much for being here with me today. It's been an.
 
 [00:44:22.700] - Aaron Nace
 Absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.